Confederate flags, tinfoil hat crowd and other nutters.

Backlash on South Carolina's decision to remove the Flag from the Confederate soldier's monument:

https://www.change.org/p/south-carolina-state-legislature-remove-the-african-american-monument-b4e7b766-137d-49ae-ab70-9691d27ac7bf?recruiter=328100211&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=share_facebook_responsive&utm_term=des-sm-share_petition-custom_msg

NAACP now wants stone mountain monument removed.

This country is going insane. If we can't all live as Americans then we must separate, wasn't that the point of the Civil War to keep the union whole?

Poker

pokermind wrote:This country is going insane. If we can't all live as Americans then we must separate, wasn't that the point of the Civil War to keep the union whole?

Poker

Just the regular nut content of just about any society, unfortunately mass media often amplifies them to a perceived majority.

BTW this is exactly why political gestures can be dangerous. Give iconoclasts an inch and they take a mile, now they have smelled blood and try to sanitize public history in a feeding frenzy.

I looked at your post,
and thought that you had posted two urls.
I clicked on the top lines, read the reference,
then clicked on the bottom and found the same reference.
I see that it is all one url.

Petitioner claims to speak for
"the people of South Carolina.
Petitioner and any signers speak for themselves only.

Petitioner says that the African-American Monument
brings shame to White People.
That shame is deserved, and ought to be felt.
Therefore the petition should be rejected.

Howard T Map-addict, Pointy-Headed Liberal

pokermind wrote:Backlash on South Carolina's decision to remove the Flag from the Confederate soldier's monument:

https://www.change.org/p/south-carolina-state-legislature-remove-the-african-american-monument-b4e7b766-137d-49ae-ab70-9691d27ac7bf?recruiter=328100211&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=share_facebook_responsive&utm_term=des-sm-share_petition-custom_msg

NAACP now wants stone mountain monument removed.

This country is going insane. If we can't all live as Americans then we must separate, wasn't that the point of the Civil War to keep the union whole?

Poker

OK, I've managed to get all of one page through this before I had to post a few comments to set the stage as it were before I respond / read the rest of the the thread.

• The Flag in question wasn't the "Confederate" Flag, it was "The Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia.
• South Carolina raised the Flag to memorialize the ACW. It was not originally intended to remain in place after the Centennial.
• During the Civil Rights movement it was adopted by supporters of segregation.

None of these facts are in dispute although is seems that most supporters of the flag flying on state grounds seem to have forgotten the original reason for flying the flag in SC's capitol.

The Swastika vs Battle Flag Symbolism:

One could argue that for thousands of years prior to the Nazis it was a Symbol of Good Fortune save that in less than 30 years it became a symbol of something hugely different. I imagine most people in these forums would recognize that Hitler and his Party has forever tarnished the symbol with the opposite perception of its original meaning.

The Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia was created as a potential CSA Flag. As has already been quoted in this thread, The CSA Vice President flat stated the values that Nation was founded on. The flag, while not adopted as the National flag, was adopted by General Lee for the Army of Northern Virginia. It has no 5000 year history of a different meaning, it was a symbol of a Slave Holding Hegemony from day one.

I know, some will claim states rights was the real reason for the ACW, but is that really true? If you go back to that time and ask any average Joe on the street what the war was about and you'll get "the right to own slaves" as the answer more than any other answer. "States Rights" is/was the mask Historians prefer to use. I imagine, at the time, a part of the desire to use this quaint phrase was to aid in the post war national reconciliation but it wasn't all. The simple fact is that their belief was rejected in the end, not nationally but globally.

By this time Wilberforce had won his fight in British Parliament and France had never really been a big believer in Slavery. In fact Blacks we recognized as people all the way back in the 1400s in France.

And the beat goes on as 'Black lives matter' thugs desecrate more cemeteries see:

http://conservative-headlines.com/2015/ ... -cemetery/

After forty years I'm tempted to use the 'N' word to describe these thugs.



Note their tag on the monument to Confederate dead.



Desecrated graves.

I can only shake my head, and pray that the hate will subside.

Poker

pokermind wrote:And the beat goes on as 'Black lives matter' thugs desecrate more cemeteries see:


Note their tag on the monument to Confederate dead.

Note that it makes a perfectly valid point?

Did you have some objection to the idea that white supremacists who tried to tear the country apart and got hundreds of thousands of people killed in the name of preserving the institution of slavery shouldn't be given high honors?

Desecrated graves.

I can only shake my head, and pray that the hate will subside.

Yeah, well if people put up towering monuments on top of said graves praising and honoring the people who fought to enslave my ancestors and keep them forever legally classified as less than human I might have a thing or two to write on it too. First step to having the hate subside? Maybe recognize that doing that is wrong.


I doubt if anyone put up a Hitler memorial honoring the man you'd think twice about an angry mob coming to do something to it.

Are you trying to say only blacks have the right to act like thugs?

I don't buy it.

Thugs entering a cemetary at night, or the KKK behind their face masks burning a cross on a lawn thugs are thugs, sorry.



Poker

gcomeau wrote:

pokermind wrote:And the beat goes on as 'Black lives matter' thugs desecrate more cemeteries see:


Note their tag on the monument to Confederate dead.

Note that it makes a perfectly valid point?

Did you have some objection to the idea that white supremacists who tried to tear the country apart and got hundreds of thousands of people killed in the name of preserving the institution of slavery shouldn't be given high honors?

Desecrated graves.

I can only shake my head, and pray that the hate will subside.

Yeah, well if people put up towering monuments on top of said graves praising and honoring the people who fought to enslave my ancestors and keep them forever legally classified as less than human I might have a thing or two to write on it too. First step to having the hate subside? Maybe recognize that doing that is wrong.


I doubt if anyone put up a Hitler memorial honoring the man you'd think twice about an angry mob coming to do something to it.

pokermind wrote:Are you trying to say only blacks have the right to act like thugs?

I don't buy it.

Thugs entering a cemetary at night, or the KKK behind their face masks burning a cross on a lawn thugs are thugs, sorry.

Why don't you spell out for me what exactly it was about protesting the glorification of white supremacy that you feel compelled to equate with the thuggery of putting on hoods and terrorizing racial minorities?

Donnachaidh wrote:It should be noted that the Nazis used slave labor too.

Australia's own slave culture isn't even officially recognized or taught as history. For that matter was still happening into the 1950's
(Well treating the convicts slave like in the early days is. Just not the natives)

pokermind wrote:I can only shake my head, here I give you the first Confederate national song to look at, and you did not catch the salient point. There is a line in there "We fight for our property we earned by honest toil" Property was a polite word for slaves in the south at that time that would prove your argument that the war was about slavery. Many southern apologists refuse to acknowledge that the war was about slavery.

The law in South Carolina was a protest to integration passed in the middle of the Civil Rights struggle and IMHO should be repealed. I'm old enough to recall the Whites only sings in the south and thinking how stupid and unfair it was.

So why I could not contradict your points, I agreed with them. Hence cute kitty. OK it's OK for gays to sue a bakery for not making a gay wedding cake due to the owner's beliefs, but it's not OK to sue Wallmart for refusing to make a cake with the Confederate flag so justify that contradiction to me. Both after all are just business decisions. Hmmm, a hint discrimination is discrimination both are justifiable law suits.

I still maintain that love of heritage and hate of injustice the flag represents are both valid for the individuals holding them. Who am I or you for that matter to judge the more valid view.

Poker

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

Vandalism is not protest vandalism is a crime. If your goal is to lose the hard won support of other races continue it. Desecrating the graves of the Confederate dead is as much a hate crime as painting KKK on a black church by recalling the horrors of reconstruction of a vengeful north to white southerners.

The union troops fought to preserve the union not to fight slavery. Lincoln waited until 1863 to emancipate the slaves of the rebellious south, and the thirteenth amendment was not passed until after the war. Nor does it ban slavery, "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude shall exist except as a punishment for a crime," thus slavery could be a criminal punishment

Interesting historical facts of slavery:

Blacks selling their fellow blacks to whites accounted for most of the slaves sold from Africa.

The first slave owner in Virginia (and thus what would become the United States) was black.

Some free blacks in the antebellum south owned slaves, a very few whole plantations.

Poker

gcomeau wrote:

pokermind wrote:Are you trying to say only blacks have the right to act like thugs?

I don't buy it.

Thugs entering a cemetary at night, or the KKK behind their face masks burning a cross on a lawn thugs are thugs, sorry.

Why don't you spell out for me what exactly it was about protesting the glorification of white supremacy that you feel compelled to equate with the thuggery of putting on hoods and terrorizing racial minorities?