Early Warning Picket for Beowulf

Armed Neo-Bob wrote:

Dauntless wrote:you raise an excellent point. we do not if beowoulf has modified its SDF with improved tech. all we know is that there was no increase in hulls and that they looked normal to the sollies.

close to first line manty EW seems likely as does the extended range single drive missile as those are relatively minor mods and would not be obvious enough to raise any eyebrows even if the SLN bothered to pay attention.

I think FTL comm is also a strong contender, even if they have not been using it, it is the sort of thing that could turn the tide of battles alone, regardless of any other improvements.

That Beowulf was modernizing its naval capabilities was in the text for CoG. ERM, and improvements in tactical fire control could be kept under the radar, if you restrict any use of them outside standard performance ranges, so it is possible. FTL not so much.

The current-as-of-1912 FTL comm uses beta-squared nodes, which are very obvious; older ones required the ship sending a message to reduce acceleration to zero while sending, due to node interference, and needed brevity codes when communicating with drones due to a lack of bandwidth. Not so useful now.

Beowulf could have been taking RMN designs, building components, and stockpiling them, perhaps while building some partial hulls and mothballing them, so as to (1) not having anything the SLN is going to notice, but (2) having totally modern units, if not built, then ready to assemble relatively quickly. Effectively, it'd be a lot like the CPS's use of Bolthole, but for the sake of current secrecy rather than the hope of getting better tech later.

They can also have been running sims with RMN gear standards to get crews prepared for the new units ahead of time.

I suspect they could have built parts and partially assembled ships, sent them to Manticore for final assembly, and sent them off past (e.g.) Matapan or Basilisk, for working up and staying quiet. The whole process would not have anything looking like an advanced and Beowulfan unit until it was far out of Solarian view. But if they had done that ("Bolthole By Pieces"), I think we would have heard about it.

Armed Neo-Bob wrote:
That Beowulf was modernizing its naval capabilities was in the text for CoG. ERM, and improvements in tactical fire control could be kept under the radar, if you restrict any use of them outside standard performance ranges, so it is possible. FTL not so much.

The current-as-of-1912 FTL comm uses beta-squared nodes, which are very obvious; older ones required the ship sending a message to reduce acceleration to zero while sending, due to node interference, and needed brevity codes when communicating with drones due to a lack of bandwidth. Not so useful now.

i'd missed that beta squared nodes were needed for FTL comm, where did that comes from? not challenging just curious as top where to find the info.

Dauntless wrote:

Armed Neo-Bob wrote:
That Beowulf was modernizing its naval capabilities was in the text for CoG. ERM, and improvements in tactical fire control could be kept under the radar, if you restrict any use of them outside standard performance ranges, so it is possible. FTL not so much.

The current-as-of-1912 FTL comm uses beta-squared nodes, which are very obvious; older ones required the ship sending a message to reduce acceleration to zero while sending, due to node interference, and needed brevity codes when communicating with drones due to a lack of bandwidth. Not so useful now.

i'd missed that beta squared nodes were needed for FTL comm, where did that comes from? not challenging just curious as top where to find the info.

The upgraded nodes were discussed in Echoes of Honor, by Admiral Truman. They are not required for an FTL com, but they are responsible for the drastic increase in bandwidth. That might be in the Pearls, though.

Rob

SWM wrote:You do realize, I hope, that Mycroft is simply "engineering a Keyhole 2 platform to serve as a dedicated orbital platform", and that Manticore has already given the plans for Mycroft to Beowulf and asked them to start production?

In the Honorverse, RFC continually implies that programming is implemented far more in hardware, not software (discussions about molycircs etc.) The "engineering" for Mycroft, given the stated objectives of redundancy, etc., would need a new generation of molycircs. Given the constraints RFC appears to place on molycircs, I don't think this would be as simple as you suggest.

Armed Neo-Bob wrote:

Dauntless wrote:i'd missed that beta squared nodes were needed for FTL comm, where did that comes from? not challenging just curious as top where to find the info.

The upgraded nodes were discussed in Echoes of Honor, by Admiral Truman. They are not required for an FTL com, but they are responsible for the drastic increase in bandwidth. That might be in the Pearls, though.

Rob

There were breakthroughs around the Beta-squared timeframe that allowed:
a) Reduced node mass; the Beta-squared nodes were larger than 'classic' beta nodes; but you needed half as many, so it was a net advantage
b) More powerful beta nodes (LAC acceleration can now match compensator limits; presumably less accel loss if a warship loses it's alpha ring(s)
c) much higher bandwidth FTL transmission; and without having to drop the wedge
d) node compatibility with bow and stern wall (SoS mentions you need an impeller room rebuild to add a bow wall)

You might well be able to build 'c' and/or 'd' into nodes that appear externally indistinguishable from 'classic' beta nodes. Beowulf clearly wouldn't want to deploy full beta-squared nodes; even a glance at the node rings, by a skilled observer, would show they weren't using SLN tech anymore. But they might have been able to build some of those capabilities into classic looking beta nodes.


For that matter it's not clear to what degree Haven replicated the Beta-squared nodes. But they also got their LAC accel way up, and can use bow / stern walls. (Their FTL data rate lags way behind Manticore's however)

wyrm wrote:

SWM wrote:You do realize, I hope, that Mycroft is simply "engineering a Keyhole 2 platform to serve as a dedicated orbital platform", and that Manticore has already given the plans for Mycroft to Beowulf and asked them to start production?

In the Honorverse, RFC continually implies that programming is implemented far more in hardware, not software (discussions about molycircs etc.) The "engineering" for Mycroft, given the stated objectives of redundancy, etc., would need a new generation of molycircs. Given the constraints RFC appears to place on molycircs, I don't think this would be as simple as you suggest.

I'm not saying it is simple. I'm just saying that David has told us this is what Mycroft is--Keyhole II with internal power supply and a distributed network of FTL repeaters around the system.

SWM wrote:I'm not saying it is simple. I'm just saying that David has told us this is what Mycroft is--Keyhole II with internal power supply and a distributed network of FTL repeaters around the system.

And that it is trivial to do, because in the Honorverse massive revisions to hardware combined with enormous changes to software that controls tens out thousands of missiles that are each capable of killing everyone on a planet don't require full acceptance testing or even detailed regression testing, they can just be popped out and will just work perfectly every time.

SWM wrote:You do realize, I hope, that Mycroft is simply "engineering a Keyhole 2 platform to serve as a dedicated orbital platform", and that Manticore has already given the plans for Mycroft to Beowulf and asked them to start production?

wyrm wrote:In the Honorverse, RFC continually implies that programming is implemented far more in hardware, not software (discussions about molycircs etc.) The "engineering" for Mycroft, given the stated objectives of redundancy, etc., would need a new generation of molycircs. Given the constraints RFC appears to place on molycircs, I don't think this would be as simple as you suggest.

SWM wrote:I'm not saying it is simple. I'm just saying that David has told us this is what Mycroft is--Keyhole II with internal power supply and a distributed network of FTL repeaters around the system.

Not everything needed for Mycroft is in existing Keyhole II platforms. Don't forget that Mycroft also has to somehow incorporate the equivalent of the SDP's fire control computer support -- all the the hardware/software/human decision-making capability -- and additional power generation/fuel which takes up considerable additional tonnage, over and above what the Keyhole II platforms require. Plus any additional defenses the Mycroft platforms may need to survive (sidewall generators, counter-missile launchers and magazines -- all of which are currently provided by the SDP).

Whether that capability is provided internally using Keyhole platforms (Keyhole III?) or remotely using fortified control station(s) (fortress[es]) or even temporarily with FTL Apollo capable SDPs -- we saw how unfortified control stations (Moriarity) fared in At All Costs, it still has to be provided somehow.

I think that providing that extra capability that the existing Keyhole II platforms need may explain why it is taking time for Mycroft to be implemented.

Vince wrote:

SWM wrote:You do realize, I hope, that Mycroft is simply "engineering a Keyhole 2 platform to serve as a dedicated orbital platform", and that Manticore has already given the plans for Mycroft to Beowulf and asked them to start production?

wyrm wrote:In the Honorverse, RFC continually implies that programming is implemented far more in hardware, not software (discussions about molycircs etc.) The "engineering" for Mycroft, given the stated objectives of redundancy, etc., would need a new generation of molycircs. Given the constraints RFC appears to place on molycircs, I don't think this would be as simple as you suggest.

SWM wrote:I'm not saying it is simple. I'm just saying that David has told us this is what Mycroft is--Keyhole II with internal power supply and a distributed network of FTL repeaters around the system.

Not everything needed for Mycroft is in existing Keyhole II platforms. Don't forget that Mycroft also has to somehow incorporate the equivalent of the SDP's fire control computer support -- all the the hardware/software/human decision-making capability -- and additional power generation/fuel which takes up considerable additional tonnage, over and above what the Keyhole II platforms require. Plus any additional defenses the Mycroft platforms may need to survive (sidewall generators, counter-missile launchers and magazines -- all of which are currently provided by the SDP).

Whether that capability is provided internally using Keyhole platforms (Keyhole III?) or remotely using fortified control station(s) (fortress[es]) or even temporarily with FTL Apollo capable SDPs -- we saw how unfortified control stations (Moriarity) fared in At All Costs, it still has to be provided somehow.

I think that providing that extra capability that the existing Keyhole II platforms need may explain why it is taking time for Mycroft to be implemented.

Actually, David has not said that Mycroft incorporates hardware/software/human decision-making capability. You are making assumptions there. In fact, he has said that the main Mycroft platform is supposed to be in the inner system. It is quite likely that Mycroft is supposed to work in conjunction with human weapons officers (who do not have to be on Mycroft itself), just as Keyhole does.

As for the power system, Keyhole II already has an internal power system. It doesn't use it often, because normal procedure is to use power transmission from the mother ship. But they do have it. Keyhole also has PDLCs built in, and impeller wedges. It can generate its own sidewalls. So, almost all of the systems you think Mycroft needs are already built into Keyhole II. The only thing missing is counter-missile launchers and magazines, but that is easily supplied in separate modules. It does not have to be built onto Mycroft itself.

Dauntless wrote:I think FTL comm is also a strong contender, even if they have not been using it, it is the sort of thing that could turn the tide of battles alone, regardless of any other improvements.

We know they have the FTL comm, they used it to talk to Tsang. While the remote platform was probably a standard Hermes buoy, the BSDF flagship at least needed to have a FTL comm suite installed. If the flagship has it, there's no reason the rest of the fleet couldn't/wouldn't; as well.