Merlin was careless?

Hi Keith_w,

Yup, they're all so very luscious.

The problem being would any of them give any of us the time of day, let alone anything more, given how great their male consorts were?

L

Keith_w wrote:

AirTech wrote:*quote="fallsfromtrees"*


I'd much rather go to Tertius

Lapis Lazuli and Lorelei Lee would be fun to hang out with ....(and their mothers too).

Don't forget their Granny, and their sister Minerva and sister to be Athena...[/quote]

Hi Orlando Native,

Given we have Merlin policing his brass after demonstrating his new revolvers at the Fort Raimyr pistol range as another example of his tidyness, I feel very confident he and/OWL policed Dialydd Mab's brass.

Even if they hadn't, at the time of Merlin's retribution, none of the Inquisition investigators had a clue what a brass rifle or pistol cartridge was, and might have ignored it if they'd found one; if it still smelled of gunpowder, they might assume it was used, but given how dangerous it is to speculate beyond the proscriptions, especially how that has been pounded into the inquisition and inquisitor's heads, how many would risk bringing it up?

They might very well have found one and eventually connect it to the captured M96's, but it will then only be a footnote.

If you were RFC, what would you have cut or snipped if pressed for space?

L

OrlandoNative wrote:

PalmerSperry wrote:*quote="McGuiness"*I always wondered how he hid his horses tracks so that they didn't come to an abrupt end when he reached the lorry... Again, not crucial to the story so RFC didn't explain it.

Walk horses into a big enough body of flowing water and from there into the air lorry. The trackers can spend as long as they want trying to find the exit point, but it wouldn't be entirely surprising if they couldn't find it.

Or just find a large expanse of very rocky ground. Probably not all that difficult.

As for the brass, it doesn't really matter either way. If he left it, it would make it absolutely certain where the "orders" originated for this particular incident. If he took it, the Charisian dagger would be suggestive, but not *proof*. Both sides have used deceptions in the past, so a *commonplace* item could, and possibly would, be seen as an attempt to misdirect. After all, this happened far behind the lines. Much easier to suspect some avenging relative with a fair bit of military training did it than some individual soldier from the other side hundreds of miles from any support.

In any case, just having the brass isn't going to tell *much*. The *exact* formulated composition of primer and propellant can't be told after the cartridge is fired; Safehold doesn't have the forensic capabilities we take for granted today. And brass cartridges can (and are) used today in a wide range of weapons with a wide range of capabilities. Unless you actually could "guesstimate" the capability of the particular weapon that fired it, how could you possibly tell which one it actually was? It would be like a 9mm shell today... ...did it come from a revolver, an automatic rifle of some sort, a machine pistol, or out of a magazine of an automatic? All are different. We could speculate today which it might have been given the knowledge of which particular models were manufactured in 9mm versions, and possibly narrow it a bit given ranges and such, but without the actual gun for ballistics tests we wouldn't be able to say for sure or create a duplicate.[/quote]

lyonheart wrote:Hi Orlando Native,

Given we have Merlin policing his brass after demonstrating his new revolvers at the Fort Raimyr pistol range as another example of his tidyness, I feel very confident he and/OWL policed Dialydd Mab's brass.

Even if they hadn't, at the time of Merlin's retribution, none of the Inquisition investigators had a clue what a brass rifle or pistol cartridge was, and might have ignored it if they'd found one; if it still smelled of gunpowder, they might assume it was used, but given how dangerous it is to speculate beyond the proscriptions, especially how that has been pounded into the inquisition and inquisitor's heads, how many would risk bringing it up?

They might very well have found one and eventually connect it to the captured M96's, but it will then only be a footnote.

If you were RFC, what would you have cut or snipped if pressed for space?

L

Actually, it doesn't matter to me either way, whether he did or didn't.

The point I was trying to make was that just a few shell casings isn't going to tell the Temple folks *much*; just by themselves.

As someone else has already noted, there's a limit on just how much detail RFC can put into a story without it literally taking the same amount of "real time" to read through it as the events it chronicles would have taken to occur.

Unless EoC has reloaders, or just "recycle" the metal for the next batch of cartridges, however, there's not really a *need* for anyone to "police their brass" unless they're *trying* to hide something on the order of where the sniper shot from or something similar, which wasn't the case in this particular incident.

Hi Wingfield,

You're right about Merlin generally being careful.

Yet there were a few unresolved questions at St Agtha's:

Who killed the rest of the assassins?

Especially the wounded in the field across from the abbey.

Does everyone believe they kept attacking until they were all killed by Sharleyan?

How often does that happen?

Who killed bishop Halcom and his aide?

None of the investigators recognised Merlin's incredible handiwork from what happened when he rescued Grey Harbor or at Darcos Sound?

When did Sgt Seahamper have the time to collect Halcom's head if he never left Sharleyan?

What happened to Kairee's yacht the Surprise?

Dancer's captain should have been ordered to take it and its crew by surprise.

For myself it seems necessary for OWL to bring the bodies of some [~4-6] of the murdered campsite guards who could be claimed to have somehow survived in the forest while the rest were massacred then finished off the wounded assassins, killing Halcom etc, then attacking the rest of the assassins from behind using arbalests and spears they picked up along the way first to whittle their numbers down until they killed the last and then succumbed to their mortal wounds.

I was surprised Merlin didn't order OWL's sensors to pick up spears or swords to stab several assassins in the back etc simultaneously when Merlin attacked, as it would have been faster etc, but all that can be for the Hollywood version.

L

wingfield wrote:

n7axw wrote:I agree that no everything gets mentioned. If it did, the story would get lost in the detail and we'd have something the size of the Encyclopedia Britannica...

Don

Given Merlin's track record for cleaning up after himself (the post-mission housekeeping at St Agtha's in BHD comes to mind), I think that this is a given.

Now if you want an Encyclopedia Britannica, my compendium of posts from our respected author currently runs to 214,753 words.

Come now, Lyonheart, all those objections are easily addressed. Its obvious. Merlin got help from seijin Ahbram or seijin Dialydd.

No one realized it at the time, but that must have been what happened.

lyonheart wrote:Hi Wingfield,

You're right about Merlin generally being careful.

Yet there were a few unresolved questions at St Agtha's:

Who killed the rest of the assassins?

Especially the wounded in the field across from the abbey.

Does everyone believe they kept attacking until they were all killed by Sharleyan?

How often does that happen?

Who killed bishop Halcom and his aide?

None of the investigators recognised Merlin's incredible handiwork from what happened when he rescued Grey Harbor or at Darcos Sound?

When did Sgt Seahamper have the time to collect Halcom's head if he never left Sharleyan?

What happened to Kairee's yacht the Surprise?

Dancer's captain should have been ordered to take it and its crew by surprise.

For myself it seems necessary for OWL to bring the bodies of some [~4-6] of the murdered campsite guards who could be claimed to have somehow survived in the forest while the rest were massacred then finished off the wounded assassins, killing Halcom etc, then attacking the rest of the assassins from behind using arbalests and spears they picked up along the way first to whittle their numbers down until they killed the last and then succumbed to their mortal wounds.

I was surprised Merlin didn't order OWL's sensors to pick up spears or swords to stab several assassins in the back etc simultaneously when Merlin attacked, as it would have been faster etc, but all that can be for the Hollywood version.

L

PeterZ wrote:Come now, Lyonheart, all those objections are easily addressed. Its obvious. Merlin got help from seijin Ahbram or seijin Dialydd.

No one realized it at the time, but that must have been what happened.

Now this is a good explanation for the masses. The seijin network's existence has been established some two-three years back in-universe, wasn't it? This should give some food for thought to all the Safeholdian conspiracy theorist. Seijin seems to be travelling too quickly? It wasn't him, it was another seijin. Job done looks like too much for one person to accomplish? He just called his seijin friends to help.

The simplest explanation is that almost no one actually saw all that evidence that Merlin left laying around. And those who did see it had no incentive to poke around.

There may have been a dozen people on Safehold who actually saw anything that could be interpreted as contradicting the official story. And all of them were loyal soldiers, most of whom are quite willing to follow orders and not think overmuch about minor inconsistencies.

AirTech wrote:

fallsfromtrees wrote:I'd much rather go to Tertius

Lapis Lazuli and Lorelei Lee would be fun to hang out with ....(and their mothers too).

They don't have mothers - they are clones of Lazarus Long, with duplicate X chromosomes. The only person who could possibly be considered their mother is Maureen Johnson Smith.
------------------
9th Doctor: "What's your name?"
Rose: "Rose Tyler"
Doctor: "Nice to meet you, Rose. Run for your life!"

Hi PeterZ,

Outstanding suggestion!

Mucho kudos-

I should have thought of that solution years ago!

The idea the seijins or their 'observers' were watching over Sharleyan while Merlin was away with Cayleb can only improve both their reputations when it becomes well known.

Cayleb and Sharleyan can help foster this explanation to any of the curious bold enough to bring it up directly that the nameless seijins [not Ahbraim or Dialydd, but possibly Nimue among others] were then under orders not to reveal themselves at that time; which BTW, weren't from Merlin, and it took a couple of hours to get to the Abbey from watching Kairee's yacht which they suspected of evil things etc, to explain their delay in killing all the remaining assassins, for which they have humbly apologized to the empress.

The growing impression of a Safehold wide organization directed by someone or some group other than Merlin that clearly supports the EoC and the CoC may be even more terrifying to those trying to explain away how Merlin has accomplished so many miracles; that he has lots of 'unseen' seijin help doesn't help them very much at all!

L

PeterZ wrote:Come now, Lyonheart, all those objections are easily addressed. Its obvious. Merlin got help from seijin Ahbram or seijin Dialydd.

No one realized it at the time, but that must have been what happened.

lyonheart wrote:Hi Wingfield,

You're right about Merlin generally being careful.

Yet there were a few unresolved questions at St Agtha's:

Who killed the rest of the assassins?

Especially the wounded in the field across from the abbey.

Does everyone believe they kept attacking until they were all killed by Sharleyan?

How often does that happen?

Who killed bishop Halcom and his aide?

None of the investigators recognised Merlin's incredible handiwork from what happened when he rescued Grey Harbor or at Darcos Sound?

When did Sgt Seahamper have the time to collect Halcom's head if he never left Sharleyan?

What happened to Kairee's yacht the Surprise?

Dancer's captain should have been ordered to take it and its crew by surprise.

For myself it seems necessary for OWL to bring the bodies of some [~4-6] of the murdered campsite guards who could be claimed to have somehow survived in the forest while the rest were massacred then finished off the wounded assassins, killing Halcom etc, then attacking the rest of the assassins from behind using arbalests and spears they picked up along the way first to whittle their numbers down until they killed the last and then succumbed to their mortal wounds.

I was surprised Merlin didn't order OWL's sensors to pick up spears or swords to stab several assassins in the back etc simultaneously when Merlin attacked, as it would have been faster etc, but all that can be for the Hollywood version.

L

lyonheart wrote:The growing impression of a Safehold wide organization directed by someone or some group other than Merlin that clearly supports the EoC and the CoC may be even more terrifying to those trying to explain away how Merlin has accomplished so many miracles; that he has lots of 'unseen' seijin help doesn't help them very much at all!

L

And it's got to give theologically minded Safeholders pause.

According to the Writ, if demons appear, angels will appear to fight them.

The EoC is benefiting from one or more of the following:
1) Improbable, even unbelievable luck
2) Seijins - plural even
3) Demons or demonic intervention
4) Angels or angelic intervention

Improbable, even unbelievable luck is - improbable, even unbelievable.

Seijins would indicate angelic approval of the "heretic" Church and Empire of Charis, against the Temple.

Demons or demonic intervention would be the popular mainland story, but those angels aren't showing. I wonder if Clyntahn isn't going to manufacture an angelic hoax out of desperation.

Angels or angelic intervention - well, that's the seijin problem again, but even worse for the Temple.

So Temple theologians have to believe in hidden angels, unbelievable enemy luck, error in the Writ - or that God Himself is favoring the other side through His agents.

Rhobair Duchairn isn't willingly blind to evidence anymore, and he is well informed. I think this line of thought has to be weighing on him heavily by now. Trynair, Rayno, Magwair are all also well informed enough, but can probably live with Writ error in Rayno's case or carefully not think about this sort of thing in Magwair's case. Trynair, I figure, may go either of those ways - or start getting uncomfortable, if Duchairn's recovery of conscience starts wearing off on him.

Clyntahn, of course, can twist anything around to his point of view. I suspect he's opting for improbable luck in the form of a vast heretic conspiracy - as vast as it takes to justify what he does.