What ship?

Fox2! wrote:

saber964 wrote:
Yes the Alaska's were considered large cruisers because they did not have some design features that cruisers have but not battleships. like the fact that they have only one rudder versus twin rudders for all modern US battleships.

The Alaskas only had 9x12/50s in their main battery. Another reason to think "whomping' big cruiser" rather than battlecruiser. BBs required at least 14s to open, preferably 15in/38cm, and much better with 16s. Or even 50cm. New build BCs, at least by Jackie Fisher's logic, should have been equivalent. As the Lexingtons would have been.

Depends on the era, during WWI BB's and BC's went upward in gun size.

USN 12in 14in to finally 16in guns.
RN 12in 13.5in and 15in with some designs receiving 16in and 18in.
IGN 11in 13in(?) 15in

Query what ship was ever built with 50cm guns. The only ship that comes even remotely close was the German H44 design study with 50cm/20in guns and the Japanese who had theoretical design for a 60cm gun. The largest guns ever put to sea was HMS Furious and Yamato class both with 46cm/18in guns. Also the German army of both world wars had very large railway guns.

cthia wrote:

Jonathan_S wrote:a pirate can be attacked just fine by any warships; and the nature of wedges means that any warship is (with a little care and luck) able to mimic the long range signature of a merchant ship well enough lure a pirate into attack range.
The Wayfarer Q-ships were designed to operate in the fleet train as a final nasty surprise for an Peep attacked that fought through (or destroyed) the escort. In that scenario there is risk of recon drones getting a visual of the hull before they close the range, so it makes sense to build them into a hull that would belong with the rest of the merchies. They only got diverted to Silesia because there wasn't anything else to send; not because they were a cost or manpower effective commerce protection or anti-piracy unit.

In contrast the Peeps tended to use theirs offensively, as part of attacks on single-system entities. Have Q-ships deep in-system posing as routine merchant traffic until the attack comes over the wall; then at an opportune time drop the disguise and stab the defenders in the back. Again there's too much risk of someone visually eyeballing them to do that with something that looks like a warship.

But both of those are very special cases, and post-war you don't need those capability to deal with pirates; so personally I doubt we'll see any widespread return of Q-ships.

Not so fast Johnathan. What about our good natured Solarian neighbors, who just may become pirates themselves, raiding shipping to make the Manties - who has high-handedly closed wormholes and has always had a monopoly on shipping anyways - look bad and profit at the same time? They may be able to fund pirate ships, but aren't going to blindly fly into the missile envelope of warships and they can afford probes. So something that looks the part of a big fat lumbering freighter still has utility regarding the inept, in-the-dark Solarians.

About those Solarians. Who are the backwoods, neobarbaric country phucks now?

Well for the moment even a Mantie SD out accelerates a SLN destroyer; so it hardly matters if if SLN ship expends enough recon drones to get a view of the very distincitive warship hull.

It can't run away, and it has a shorter effective missile range than most Mantie warships (even if its carrying Cataphracts). So IDing the Mantie as a warship doesn't stop them from being screwed.


And you only need the Q-ship in situations where they're getting a visual ID; which against a non-cooperative ship in flight can only be done by recon drones (you can't look through the wedge; and its easy to keep the wedge between you and the pirate until they're within missile range). At longer ranges ship classification is done by looking at the wedge signature; and warships have repeatedly been shown able to play games with that (as long as the power/acceleration level is kept down) to look like less threatening ships.


Longer term, when the tech balances, you'd still need to be a very cagey pirate to stand off and use recon drones to visually ID every potential target. (Also a pirate willing to accept reduced profit margins in the interest of safety -- recon drones aren't cheap and even if recovered have non-trivial maintenance costs)

I obviously can't rule out the occasional exceptional need for a Q-ship; but do I seriously doubt they'll become a routine widely deployed part of commerce protection or anti-piracy efforts. (However cool they may be as a ship)

--snipping after spitting soda laughing--

cthia wrote:Sure thing Sharky. Since you put it like that, we'll make you a keel plate owner.

Wait! A She Wolf of the SS commanded by a SharkHunter? What pirates? They've long since high-tailed it out of your quadrant for less meaner pastures!
.

This refers to my pet uber Q ship... a la design by Foraker and Hemphill of course... Well, I'd likely go by the moniker of something akin to Cap'n Crunch with marshmallows, keep the keep plate design well hidden, and have all sorts of dubious transponders akin to UsuallyDrunk, StarwaysRovingCasino, TakeMeI'mYours Escorts & Transports, and of course Bootlegger's Paradise. Until y'all bad guys get close enough and then Sharky of the SeaWolf sprouts teeth.

Did I mention having treecats aboard to assist in my interrogations and customs patrols?

SharkHunter wrote:--snipping after spitting soda laughing--

cthia wrote:Sure thing Sharky. Since you put it like that, we'll make you a keel plate owner.

Wait! A She Wolf of the SS commanded by a SharkHunter? What pirates? They've long since high-tailed it out of your quadrant for less meaner pastures!
.

This refers to my pet uber Q ship... a la design by Foraker and Hemphill of course... Well, I'd likely go by the moniker of something akin to Cap'n Crunch with marshmallows, keep the keep plate design well hidden, and have all sorts of dubious transponders akin to UsuallyDrunk, StarwaysRovingCasino, TakeMeI'mYours Escorts & Transports, and of course Bootlegger's Paradise. Until y'all bad guys get close enough and then Sharky of the SeaWolf sprouts teeth.

Did I mention having treecats aboard to assist in my interrogations and customs patrols?

What, no transponder using the name Double Dipper, even though there's no hammerheads?

SharkHunter wrote:--snipping after spitting soda laughing--

cthia wrote:Sure thing Sharky. Since you put it like that, we'll make you a keel plate owner.

Wait! A She Wolf of the SS commanded by a SharkHunter? What pirates? They've long since high-tailed it out of your quadrant for less meaner pastures!
.

This refers to my pet uber Q ship... a la design by Foraker and Hemphill of course... Well, I'd likely go by the moniker of something akin to Cap'n Crunch with marshmallows, keep the keep plate design well hidden, and have all sorts of dubious transponders akin to UsuallyDrunk, StarwaysRovingCasino, TakeMeI'mYours Escorts & Transports, and of course Bootlegger's Paradise. Until y'all bad guys get close enough and then Sharky of the SeaWolf sprouts teeth.

Did I mention having treecats aboard to assist in my interrogations and customs patrols?

jchilds wrote:What, no transponder using the name Double Dipper, even though there's no hammerheads?

Of course, you do know that with that MO you're quite destined to meet and become OLD TILMAN buddies with Bachfisch.

You know, when those She Wolves come off the assembly line, I can think of more than one reason for Honor and The Star Empire to make sure Bachfisch receives one.

Hasn't Bachfisch self-rehabilitated by now? Hasn't he earned a pardon?

He lost both his legs, but does he regenerate?

cthia wrote:Sure thing Sharky. Since you put it like that, we'll make you a keel plate owner.

Wait! A She Wolf of the SS commanded by a SharkHunter? What pirates? They've long since high-tailed it out of your quadrant for less meaner pastures!
.

This refers to my pet uber Q ship... a la design by Foraker and Hemphill of course... Well, I'd likely go by the moniker of something akin to Cap'n Crunch with marshmallows, keep the keep plate design well hidden, and have all sorts of dubious transponders akin to UsuallyDrunk, StarwaysRovingCasino, TakeMeI'mYours Escorts & Transports, and of course Bootlegger's Paradise. Until y'all bad guys get close enough and then Sharky of the SeaWolf sprouts teeth.

Did I mention having treecats aboard to assist in my interrogations and customs patrols?[/quote]

jchilds wrote:What, no transponder using the name Double Dipper, even though there's no hammerheads?

Of course, you do know that with that MO you're quite destined to meet and become OLD TILMAN buddies with Bachfisch.

You know, when those She Wolves come off the assembly line, I can think of more than one reason for Honor and The Star Empire to make sure Bachfisch receives one.

Hasn't Bachfisch self-rehabilitated by now? Hasn't he earned a pardon?

He lost both his legs, but does he regenerate?[/quote] Heck, I'll squadron mate with Bachfisch any time. He'd be a good person to train me up proper and all.

drothgery wrote:

Dauntless wrote:You are a Capitan of the List in the RMN and because you are owed a favour by the fifth space lord you can have your pick of a ship. What ship would you choose? (i'm talking general class, not specific model, though you can specify that as well if you like)

I'd remind Sir Lucien that just because my rank has reached Captain of the List some years after a sense of patriotism and the Navy's need for good programmers dragged me in, I'm still not a command track officer, and ought not to be placed in command of a warship. I'm perfectly happy commanding a desk in Landing, as I've been doing since I was commissioned.

Yeah IRL I would never pass they physical requirements to get in without massive medical treatment and almost certainly long therapy to relearn how to use my limbs and rebuild my muscles. Not sure what path I would follow exactly.

If I followed the path of most of my modern navy and space navy RPG characters I would probably have done stints in Buships and Buweaps because almost all of my RPG characters in the aforementioned categories have strong technical, mechanical and engineering bases or acquire the skills during my time playing them. Not counting fighter pilots I can only remember a couple of Age of steam or later ocean navy or space navy characters of mine who haven't either been highly involved with their faction's equivalent of the design section of Buships, served as ship designers in a civilian run design firm before, after or in one case during service, or both of the above. And most of those ended up as either ship captains or field flag officers, plus a couple who were either regional governors, or heads of state but had no problem with dusting off their old uniforms when the call to battle sounded

Theemile wrote:

cthia wrote:Oh come on, s'one's gotta be the patient! Or rather, pull the patient. Nobody's gonna volunteer for tugboat duty?

I know there are plenty of Ford F-150 types on the forum, and I hear HMS Stevedore packs lots of low end torque. You can always borrow her after work and take her home to pull stumps out of the ground - entire root system and all without breaking a sweat or revving the engine.

Cthia, That may work, but I believe the Stevedore class is more appropriate for removing the odd mountain in your backyard, than for removing stumps. My daddy always told me, "right tool for the right job..."

jchilds wrote:The Stevedore-class was, alas, insufficient to remove a certain Adm. Santino's head from his anal orifice - all things have limits apparently.

Like Theemile's daddy says, "right tool for the right job." Or in this case, the right practitioner's tools.

You shouldn't use a proctologist for that montrous surgical procedure. Santino's head is much too far up his nether region.

It's a much simpler procedure for the tools of a neurosurgeon. Just under his skull you'll fine ass for brains.

Dauntless wrote:You are a Capitan of the List in the RMN and because you are owed a favour by the fifth space lord you can have your pick of a ship. What ship would you choose? (i'm talking general class, not specific model, though you can specify that as well if you like)

I would probably choose a heavy Cruiser. CA's are often the ship of choice for interdependent commands. They are big enough to fight anything smaller then a BC (assuming its a modern BC) if i end up in a fight but small enough to move quickly if needed.

They (to me) just sound more fun.

Second choice would be Battlecruiser, most of the same benefits as the CA but less likely to be sent off alone, so odds are i'll have someone looking over my shoulder. still a BC is likely to get more interesting (in the Chinese sense of the word) missions assuming i'm not tied up escorting an SD

How about a new class based on either a heavy cruiser or battle cruiser hull. With the large throw weight of missiles being used, Have these ships outfitted with pure anti-missle defense then tie them into a squaden's defense

the only problem with that type of ship is that it can only be used as a fleet/sqaudron escort.

most navies including the fictional ones like a ship that can be used for more then one purpose. The RMN has tried to stay away from designs that are so specialised, as they needed as many ships as they could build.

plus up against current threats (SLN) there is just no call for such a ship and that that is what the keyhole systems are for on the larger combatants.