Mistletoe 2

OrlandoNative wrote:*IF* they could be given enough endurance, what they *could* be used for is as *mines*.

Forget about "going after" anything. Use the drives for "station keeping" as necessary, under low enough power that the stealth fields conceal it, and just wait for the enemy to come to you. Whatever the spider drive is, it's got to be some sort of direct field manipulation. If it were material, like a rocket, it could be seen. Or at least easily detected. Even if it used ion propulsion, the trail should be easily detectable. That would obviously be a non-optimal situation.

However, any direct field drive known is going to create some kind of "stress" in spacetime, be it magnetic, gravitational, or whatever. And even a coasting body, not under drive power, is going to occult stars and other objects. All of which a sophisticated enough mine could possibly detect. Then all it needs to do is "lase" in the direction of highest probability. Indeed, if seeded thickly enough, "adjacent" mines could even keep "in touch" via whisper lasers, and multiple units saturate an area of space from all directions.

They already have mines. They don't need to use drones as mines.

The advantage of stealthy mobile mines would be how you could employ them especially in system defense where you have the sensor coverage advantage. You could routinely do things like Honor and Sarnow did in SVW or how Hemphill suckered Webster? in OBS. Instead of only mining areas around planets and fixed installations you can move the minefields to where they have the best chance of encountering the enemy.

I don't know if mines like these would be technically feasible in the Honorverse, but there would be definite advantages,especially for defense, if they are.

SWM wrote:

OrlandoNative wrote:*IF* they could be given enough endurance, what they *could* be used for is as *mines*.

Forget about "going after" anything. Use the drives for "station keeping" as necessary, under low enough power that the stealth fields conceal it, and just wait for the enemy to come to you. Whatever the spider drive is, it's got to be some sort of direct field manipulation. If it were material, like a rocket, it could be seen. Or at least easily detected. Even if it used ion propulsion, the trail should be easily detectable. That would obviously be a non-optimal situation.

However, any direct field drive known is going to create some kind of "stress" in spacetime, be it magnetic, gravitational, or whatever. And even a coasting body, not under drive power, is going to occult stars and other objects. All of which a sophisticated enough mine could possibly detect. Then all it needs to do is "lase" in the direction of highest probability. Indeed, if seeded thickly enough, "adjacent" mines could even keep "in touch" via whisper lasers, and multiple units saturate an area of space from all directions.

They already have mines. They don't need to use drones as mines.

We have textev that the grader torps can operate at low power for months....

Rowbi wrote:The advantage of stealthy mobile mines would be how you could employ them especially in system defense where you have the sensor coverage advantage. You could routinely do things like Honor and Sarnow did in SVW or how Hemphill suckered Webster? in OBS. Instead of only mining areas around planets and fixed installations you can move the minefields to where they have the best chance of encountering the enemy.

I don't know if mines like these would be technically feasible in the Honorverse, but there would be definite advantages,especially for defense, if they are.

I believe the text states that the mines are mobile. Just not as mobile as drones. You shouldn't need mines as mobile as drones. You shouldn't need mines as mobile as drones. And mines are designed to last for months at a time. Drones are not.

kzt wrote:

SharkHunter wrote: Likely agreement, but that's why the "microfusion" specification: using the power from the reactor to "grav lens" the entire 45 MTon blast that a 16G warhead can trigger, but into a graser shot instead of lasing rods. Something for the whiz kids from Weyland, Foraker, and the gang to figure out while they rebuild things like space stations, etc.

Umm, exactly how do you get a multi-second pulse when the entire system is turned into energetic plasma in a few microseconds? Not to mention the minor point that a small graser masses 3000 tons.

As far as I know multi-second pulse (the graser torpedoes) are an MAlign design designed to swivel and destroy as many stationary targets as possible. What I am talking about is a microsecond pulse, the same that a ship would likely fire off. The point is that if you have enemy ships under close observation and they haven't detected your drones, you've likely got the ability to position the "graser drone" for a clean shot at a sidewall, etc. at much greater ranges than the 30K stand off for a bomb pumped laser head. Maybe a one in 10 to 20 ratio?

SharkHunter wrote: As far as I know multi-second pulse (the graser torpedoes) are an MAlign design designed to swivel and destroy as many stationary targets as possible. What I am talking about is a microsecond pulse, the same that a ship would likely fire off. The point is that if you have enemy ships under close observation and they haven't detected your drones, you've likely got the ability to position the "graser drone" for a clean shot at a sidewall, etc. at much greater ranges than the 30K stand off for a bomb pumped laser head. Maybe a one in 10 to 20 ratio?

I don't think the standoff range of the graser torpedo is that much more than the standoff range of a laserhead.

SWM wrote:

Rowbi wrote:The advantage of stealthy mobile mines would be how you could employ them especially in system defense where you have the sensor coverage advantage. You could routinely do things like Honor and Sarnow did in SVW or how Hemphill suckered Webster? in OBS. Instead of only mining areas around planets and fixed installations you can move the minefields to where they have the best chance of encountering the enemy.

I don't know if mines like these would be technically feasible in the Honorverse, but there would be definite advantages,especially for defense, if they are.

I believe the text states that the mines are mobile. Just not as mobile as drones. You shouldn't need mines as mobile as drones. You shouldn't need mines as mobile as drones. And mines are designed to last for months at a time. Drones are not.

The mines here-to-fore mentioned are basically planetary defense constellations, intended to protect near space from enemy vessels assuming planetary orbit to demand surrender prior to orbital bombardment; or assault. They also weren't said to be stealthed. Of course, they probably wouldn't need to be; the only really effective offense against them would be a proximity nuke explosion; which would happen immediately after the first one blew anyway. I don't see them having (or needing) much in the way of mobility, other than possibly being able to change their orientation in order to focus their energy on whatever enemy vessel they're engaging, which could be done via gyroscopes anyway, with no tell-tale emissions.

The mistletoe 2 platforms, however, need not be orbital, they could have pre-programed courses for the entire minefield to follow throughout a large area of an entire star system.

Also, the drones apparently *do* have extended endurance, since the ones left in New Tuscany by Chatterlee's ships were still functional when Michelle's squadron arrived later. We don't know the exact amount of "travel time" from Spindle to New Tuscany, but they lasted at least twice that, plus the time spent between Chatterlee's force hypering in and his watching destroyer leaving to inform Spindle about what happened.

With micro fusion power sources, and assuming no active sensors to suck power, they could probably last for quite a while, compared to the older, capacitor-powered versions.

SWM wrote:

SharkHunter wrote: As far as I know multi-second pulse (the graser torpedoes) are an MAlign design designed to swivel and destroy as many stationary targets as possible. What I am talking about is a microsecond pulse, the same that a ship would likely fire off. The point is that if you have enemy ships under close observation and they haven't detected your drones, you've likely got the ability to position the "graser drone" for a clean shot at a sidewall, etc. at much greater ranges than the 30K stand off for a bomb pumped laser head. Maybe a one in 10 to 20 ratio?

I don't think the standoff range of the graser torpedo is that much more than the standoff range of a laserhead.

It would depend on available power. The grasers on SD's are much generally much more powerful than those on destroyers or cruisers. The Q-ships had more powerful ones, but those were purpose built/installed.

For a graser torpedo, the power limitations are significant. Even with a Manty microfusion plant, I doubt you could power a graser to SD power levels. At least not for consecutive multiple firings. The MAN knew their targets were, basically, unprotected - one of the advantages of a sneak attack, after all - so they really didn't need the power levels necessary to bore through sidewalls. Since the MAN *didn't* have the same power capabilities, their grasers were probably about the same as something a frigate or non-Manty LAC might have.

But, again, against an unsuspecting and undefended target, they didn't need anything better.

As for laser heads, in some ways they're *much* better than a graser. Since they have multiple lasing rods, they can make multiple hits with just one firing. Theoretically, if the ships you were targeting were close enough together, you might even be able to hit multiple targets simultaneously.

SWM wrote:I don't think the standoff range of the graser torpedo is that much more than the standoff range of a laserhead.

Range is completely subjective on this one. It is "cruiser" graser strength. Whatever that means.

How close one needs to get is determined by how strong the sidewall interdicting the fire is along with how much armor you wish to penetrate. Same goes for laser warheads. A destroyer grade laser warhead can get through a SD sidewall. It just has to be VERY vERY VERY VERY close to the ship where the PDLC's obtain nearly 100% kill ratios.

OrlandoNative wrote:
It would depend on available power. The grasers on SD's are much generally much more powerful than those on destroyers or cruisers. The Q-ships had more powerful ones, but those were purpose built/installed.

Power throughput is not the same thing as power density now is it?