HFQ ARC dead tree on ebay over $220

With less than a day to go... Looks to be $227. I bid $30 waaaay back in the early days but I did not expect this.

It would be interesting to put this in historical context - what is the average price for a Weber Safehold dead tree ARC? A Weber book in general? Baen would normally be happy to sell you one three months early but other publishers do not like the easy, easy money.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Safehold-novel-HELL-S-FOUNDATIONS-QUIVER-by-David-Weber-ARC-/291519138303

Fubar wrote:With less than a day to go... Looks to be $227. I bid $30 waaaay back in the early days but I did not expect this.

It would be interesting to put this in historical context - what is the average price for a Weber Safehold dead tree ARC? A Weber book in general? Baen would normally be happy to sell you one three months early but other publishers do not like the easy, easy money.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Safehold-novel-HELL-S-FOUNDATIONS-QUIVER-by-David-Weber-ARC-/291519138303

Is this, strictly speaking, legal??? Baen's policies with e-arc's are not TOR's and somehow I don't see them being amused by this. Feels like anything as if there is a contract or copyright violation here someplace.

Larry

Not the first time I see something like that. There was another Safehold ARC in ebay before.

If sent for purposes of review only the individual selling it may face legal action from the publisher. No doubt this activity pisses David off. But probably a sign of the times want to read early pay big bucks or wait for published and edited version.

Poker

I was the 2nd bid and I topped out at $120
I've gotten the last two safehold books two or three months early this way, alas this one has gotten too pricey...
(I also make sure I purchase the actual book so David gets paid)

I think TOR should offer ARC's at say $50 they would sell at least a few (see how many have bid on this)

Its funny no one mentioned the ARC or ebay until they were personally outbid...

pokermind wrote:If sent for purposes of review only the individual selling it may face legal action from the publisher. No doubt this activity pisses David off. But probably a sign of the times want to read early pay big bucks or wait for published and edited version.

Poker

Mmmm... unless there's some sort of "non-disclosure" agreement signed when the book was purchased, it's no different than selling any other "used book". Just like finding them at a yard sale, flea market, used book store, or any other venue where books are resold. There's no copyright violation in selling a physical book. That only happens if you make a *copy* to keep, and sell the original. That's much easier for a ebook than a paper one.

I see no reason for David to be upset; after all, he got his royalty from the original sale. If he's upset about how much someone was willing to pay afterwards that he didn't get a cut of, he could request a number of copies from the publisher as part of the contract and offer them on eBay himself.

The sad thing about this is that apparently TOR *does* offer ARCs, but not to the audience Baen does. I think I've actually seen this before on the TOR site. They have contests or raffles; and probably only make a very limited number of copies available as "prizes", rather than allowing the general public to just purchase them.

Just as an aside, I like David's books probably as much as anyone, but spending over $200 on eBay, even for an ARC that *might* eventually become a collectible, indicates to me that someone has far more money than they should.

OrlandoNative wrote:

pokermind wrote:If sent for purposes of review only the individual selling it may face legal action from the publisher. No doubt this activity pisses David off. But probably a sign of the times want to read early pay big bucks or wait for published and edited version.

Poker

Mmmm... unless there's some sort of "non-disclosure" agreement signed when the book was purchased, it's no different than selling any other "used book". Just like finding them at a yard sale, flea market, used book store, or any other venue where books are resold. There's no copyright violation in selling a physical book. That only happens if you make a *copy* to keep, and sell the original. That's much easier for a ebook than a paper one.

I see no reason for David to be upset; after all, he got his royalty from the original sale. If he's upset about how much someone was willing to pay afterwards that he didn't get a cut of, he could request a number of copies from the publisher as part of the contract and offer them on eBay himself.

The sad thing about this is that apparently TOR *does* offer ARCs, but not to the audience Baen does. I think I've actually seen this before on the TOR site. They have contests or raffles; and probably only make a very limited number of copies available as "prizes", rather than allowing the general public to just purchase them.

Just as an aside, I like David's books probably as much as anyone, but spending over $200 on eBay, even for an ARC that *might* eventually become a collectible, indicates to me that someone has far more money than they should.

I would think that if a book is provided for the purpose of review, then that book would remain the property of the publisher/author or other copyright owner and there fore selling on eBay would be at best a copyright violation and at worst theft, especially if it was provided under an NDA.

Keith_w wrote:
I would think that if a book is provided for the purpose of review, then that book would remain the property of the publisher/author or other copyright owner and there fore selling on eBay would be at best a copyright violation and at worst theft, especially if it was provided under an NDA.

*IF* that were the case, then possibly yes, especially if there was a stated or implied clause covering either destroying the book when done, or returning it.

On the other hand, this copy *could* have been obtained as I noted above. In which case, there wouldn't be any future obligation once it left the publisher's hands.

As I recall, TOR tends to have a "day sale" kind of thing, where some new book or ARC is available to be bought for only one day at some point before the general release date. They also have had days where a ARC or new published copy of a book is available to the first x-number of folks that day who request one. Unfortunately, it's not advertised widely, I think you'd probably have to go to TOR's website that same day to notice. Probably in the wee hours of the morning, too, for that matter.

It's really all speculation at this point, since we don't know the providence of the ARC.

The other point is that it *could* just be a scam, as well. Anyone bidding on something like this should make sure the seller has a high positive feedback score.

Over $440 now. For $420 I can wait 3 months. I would love to see TOR do e-ARC's like Baen does, It usually means I spend an extra ~$15 to read it before the hardback comes out.

Larry wrote:

Fubar wrote:With less than a day to go... Looks to be $227. I bid $30 waaaay back in the early days but I did not expect this.

It would be interesting to put this in historical context - what is the average price for a Weber Safehold dead tree ARC? A Weber book in general? Baen would normally be happy to sell you one three months early but other publishers do not like the easy, easy money.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Safehold-novel-HELL-S-FOUNDATIONS-QUIVER-by-David-Weber-ARC-/291519138303

Is this, strictly speaking, legal??? Baen's policies with e-arc's are not TOR's and somehow I don't see them being amused by this. Feels like anything as if there is a contract or copyright violation here someplace.

Larry

Sending ARCs to reviewers / fan sites is an age old practice (it's the reason ARCs exist), and I've never seen one come with a contract. It's not a digital item (eARC), but a paper-bound book, and there are quite a few collectors of them out there. I own 2, and got the last Baen ARC before they started selling eARCs (Shadow of Saganami), and got Himself to sign it at ConDFW. There is no legal issue here... it's a physical book, sent gratis in the hopes of the recipient publishing a review or otherwise providing pre-publication buzz.

Making copies, now, would be different, and it wouldn't matter if it was a physical book or not.

Edit: for historical price tracking, I bought that SoSag ARC about 4 months before publication off of eBay for $90, and thought that was reasonable. Himself auctioned off hand-made ARCs of Mission of Honor at several cons in 2009 to fund his con expenses. I was at the auction for ConDFW with a $200 war chest, confident of getting one, and didn't get close. Cheapest went for $400, highest went for $1000 (he had 10.)