What ship?

cthia wrote:Why were they called Q ships? Was the Q to signify a question? Like, what the phuck is that? Or even better after the debris, what the phuck was that!?

The first proper Q-ships were homeported in Queenstown, Ireland. Really as simple as that.

munroburton wrote:

cthia wrote:Why were they called Q ships? Was the Q to signify a question? Like, what the phuck is that? Or even better after the debris, what the phuck was that!?

The first proper Q-ships were homeported in Queenstown, Ireland. Really as simple as that.

Thanks.

The first proper Q-Ship being of Havenite design - who actually invented the class? And then the Manties just bore the designation as well?

--snipping--

cthia wrote:After the dust settles between the major combatants and Theisman gets his dream of peace, there'll still be the element of piracy to deal with. Can you imagine what type of Q-Ship Shannon and Sonja can roll out of Bolthole? Of course, everyone will nickname the type: She Wolves of the SS

Oh my. Wants one. Soon. I hereby promise to help fight the good war on behalf of all mankind outside the MAlign for the next century (I do get prolong, right?) then take my old retired ship (and a treecat clan) to some faraway corner of the galaxy and keep it safe for all comers. Write books. Publish stories. Puh-lease, Can I be first in line?

Though I'm thinking that the Queenstown answer is right, I'm also wishing that it's something properly authorially tongue in cheek like "Q" as in the James Bond series, btw. designed by a keeper of the department of sneaky dirty tricks.

cthia wrote:Thanks.

The first proper Q-Ship being of Havenite design - who actually invented the class? And then the Manties just bore the designation as well?

*shrugs* Some Legislaturalist R&D person who has long since been shot?

I said 'proper' when referring to the first Q-ship because I'm sure there have been earlier historical instances of disguised warships. As to the name, it's just one of those things. Like how tanks are called that because the first such "landships" were developed in secret, under the cover of water tank construction.

SharkHunter wrote:--snipping--

cthia wrote:After the dust settles between the major combatants and Theisman gets his dream of peace, there'll still be the element of piracy to deal with. Can you imagine what type of Q-Ship Shannon and Sonja can roll out of Bolthole? Of course, everyone will nickname the type: She Wolves of the SS

Oh my. Wants one. Soon. I hereby promise to help fight the good war on behalf of all mankind outside the MAlign for the next century (I do get prolong, right?) then take my old retired ship (and a treecat clan) to some faraway corner of the galaxy and keep it safe for all comers. Write books. Publish stories. Puh-lease, Can I be first in line?

Though I'm thinking that the Queenstown answer is right, I'm also wishing that it's something properly authorially tongue in cheek like "Q" as in the James Bond series, btw. designed by a keeper of the department of sneaky dirty tricks.

Sure thing Sharky. Since you put it like that, we'll make you a keel plate owner.

Wait! A She Wolf of the SS commanded by a SharkHunter? What pirates? They've long since high-tailed it out of your quadrant for less meaner pastures!
.

SharkHunter wrote:--snipping--

cthia wrote:After the dust settles between the major combatants and Theisman gets his dream of peace, there'll still be the element of piracy to deal with. Can you imagine what type of Q-Ship Shannon and Sonja can roll out of Bolthole? Of course, everyone will nickname the type: She Wolves of the SS

Oh my. Wants one. Soon. I hereby promise to help fight the good war on behalf of all mankind outside the MAlign for the next century (I do get prolong, right?) then take my old retired ship (and a treecat clan) to some faraway corner of the galaxy and keep it safe for all comers. Write books. Publish stories. Puh-lease, Can I be first in line?

Though I'm thinking that the Queenstown answer is right, I'm also wishing that it's something properly authorially tongue in cheek like "Q" as in the James Bond series, btw. designed by a keeper of the department of sneaky dirty tricks.

They'll be built at the Trojan Horse Annex of Bolthole.

cthia wrote:

munroburton wrote:The first proper Q-ships were homeported in Queenstown, Ireland. Really as simple as that.

Thanks.

The first proper Q-Ship being of Havenite design - who actually invented the class? And then the Manties just bore the designation as well?

Q-ship is not a class or official designation. It is a descriptive term. The term has undoubtedly been used in the Honorverse for as long as the ships existed, which is probably long before Haven started building them. It's like asking why Honorverse ships are called destroyers; the term came from naval terms on Old Earth.

cthia wrote:Ok, Peep Q-Ships were better offerings than Manty-Qs. I suppose Manty Q-Ships were jury-rigged on a rushed afterthought. It would have been nice to see two Q-Ships, Peep and Manty run into each other and watch the fireworks. A tactician's tickler would have been that battle's recipe.

After the dust settles between the major combatants and Theisman gets his dream of peace, there'll still be the element of piracy to deal with. Can you imagine what type of Q-Ship Shannon and Sonja can roll out of Bolthole?

Well Peep Q-ships were tougher, had more armor, redundancy, and damage control than Manty Q-ships.

But the Wayfarer-class, being the first pod layers, had far more offensive firepower. Or if the fight started in energy range it was Wayfarer's SD weight grasers (and no armor) and the Astra-class's BC weight grasers and BC grade armor.

Either way it's likely to be bloody for both sides, as (at that time) neither had an advantage in weapons range.


But fast forward a few years and the Manty Q-ship can be trivially rearmed with longer range missiles simply by swapping out the loaded pods, while the Peep design can't. So now Wayfarers have a significant reach advantage in missile combat; combined with their heavy weight of fire from the pods. Given the right combat conditions they could crush multiple Peep Q-ships without taking any damage in return. (But they're still eggshells armed with sledgehammers; so in the Peeps land any hits those are going to be devastating)




Historically, in WW I, the RN used Q-ships because they needed to trick U-boats into surfacing to have a reasonable chance of sinking them (pre-sonar plus crappy depth charges). And U-boats preferred (for rules of war, and also logistics reasons) to surface and sink unescorted ships by gunfire or scuttling. So make a merchant ship look helpless, wait for the U-boat to surface and demand surrender, then open fire.

But the Honorverse doesn't normally have that same need; a pirate can be attacked just fine by any warships; and the nature of wedges means that any warship is (with a little care and luck) able to mimic the long range signature of a merchant ship well enough lure a pirate into attack range.
The Wayfarer Q-ships were designed to operate in the fleet train as a final nasty surprise for an Peep attacked that fought through (or destroyed) the escort. In that scenario there is risk of recon drones getting a visual of the hull before they close the range, so it makes sense to build them into a hull that would belong with the rest of the merchies. They only got diverted to Silesia because there wasn't anything else to send; not because they were a cost or manpower effective commerce protection or anti-piracy unit.

In contrast the Peeps tended to use theirs offensively, as part of attacks on single-system entities. Have Q-ships deep in-system posing as routine merchant traffic until the attack comes over the wall; then at an opportune time drop the disguise and stab the defenders in the back. Again there's too much risk of someone visually eyeballing them to do that with something that looks like a warship.

But both of those are very special cases, and post-war you don't need those capability to deal with pirates; so personally I doubt we'll see any widespread return of Q-ships.

Dauntless wrote:You are a Capitan of the List in the RMN and because you are owed a favour by the fifth space lord you can have your pick of a ship. What ship would you choose? (i'm talking general class, not specific model, though you can specify that as well if you like)

I'd remind Sir Lucien that just because my rank has reached Captain of the List some years after a sense of patriotism and the Navy's need for good programmers dragged me in, I'm still not a command track officer, and ought not to be placed in command of a warship. I'm perfectly happy commanding a desk in Landing, as I've been doing since I was commissioned.

Jonathan_S wrote:

cthia wrote:Ok, Peep Q-Ships were better offerings than Manty-Qs. I suppose Manty Q-Ships were jury-rigged on a rushed afterthought. It would have been nice to see two Q-Ships, Peep and Manty run into each other and watch the fireworks. A tactician's tickler would have been that battle's recipe.

After the dust settles between the major combatants and Theisman gets his dream of peace, there'll still be the element of piracy to deal with. Can you imagine what type of Q-Ship Shannon and Sonja can roll out of Bolthole?

Well Peep Q-ships were tougher, had more armor, redundancy, and damage control than Manty Q-ships.

But the Wayfarer-class, being the first pod layers, had far more offensive firepower. Or if the fight started in energy range it was Wayfarer's SD weight grasers (and no armor) and the Astra-class's BC weight grasers and BC grade armor.

Either way it's likely to be bloody for both sides, as (at that time) neither had an advantage in weapons range.


But fast forward a few years and the Manty Q-ship can be trivially rearmed with longer range missiles simply by swapping out the loaded pods, while the Peep design can't. So now Wayfarers have a significant reach advantage in missile combat; combined with their heavy weight of fire from the pods. Given the right combat conditions they could crush multiple Peep Q-ships without taking any damage in return. (But they're still eggshells armed with sledgehammers; so in the Peeps land any hits those are going to be devastating)




Historically, in WW I, the RN used Q-ships because they needed to trick U-boats into surfacing to have a reasonable chance of sinking them (pre-sonar plus crappy depth charges). And U-boats preferred (for rules of war, and also logistics reasons) to surface and sink unescorted ships by gunfire or scuttling. So make a merchant ship look helpless, wait for the U-boat to surface and demand surrender, then open fire.

But the Honorverse doesn't normally have that same need; a pirate can be attacked just fine by any warships; and the nature of wedges means that any warship is (with a little care and luck) able to mimic the long range signature of a merchant ship well enough lure a pirate into attack range.
The Wayfarer Q-ships were designed to operate in the fleet train as a final nasty surprise for an Peep attacked that fought through (or destroyed) the escort. In that scenario there is risk of recon drones getting a visual of the hull before they close the range, so it makes sense to build them into a hull that would belong with the rest of the merchies. They only got diverted to Silesia because there wasn't anything else to send; not because they were a cost or manpower effective commerce protection or anti-piracy unit.

In contrast the Peeps tended to use theirs offensively, as part of attacks on single-system entities. Have Q-ships deep in-system posing as routine merchant traffic until the attack comes over the wall; then at an opportune time drop the disguise and stab the defenders in the back. Again there's too much risk of someone visually eyeballing them to do that with something that looks like a warship.

But both of those are very special cases, and post-war you don't need those capability to deal with pirates; so personally I doubt we'll see any widespread return of Q-ships.

Not so fast Johnathan. What about our good natured Solarian neighbors, who just may become pirates themselves, raiding shipping to make the Manties - who has high-handedly closed wormholes and has always had a monopoly on shipping anyways - look bad and profit at the same time? They may be able to fund pirate ships, but aren't going to blindly fly into the missile envelope of warships when they can afford probes. So something that looks the part of a big fat lumbering freighter still has utility regarding the inept, in-the-dark Solarians.

About those Solarians. Who are the backwoods, neobarbaric country phucks now?