Grav Lance on LACs?

I kinda like the idea of the LAC carrier wormhole assault ship.
Jump through then use grav launchers to mass launch the LAC which yhen uses reaction thrusters to clear the zone.
I haven't read anything to suggest that sidewalls or bow walls don't work so it wont be defenceless. Add some reaction mass in drop pods for that first minute or two.

Probably impracticle, but potentially do-able.

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Annachie wrote:I haven't read anything to suggest that sidewalls or bow walls don't work so it wont be defenceless.

It is strongly implied that Sidewalls need a wedge to tie into or they must be spherical (which couldn't be used with Warshawski Sails). I'm pretty sure that there is no textev for the simultaneous use of Warshawski sails and sidewalls of any kind.

Wormhole assaults are the Honorverse equivalent of a Forlorn Hope in 18th and early 19th century European warfare.

Weird Harold wrote:

Annachie wrote:I haven't read anything to suggest that sidewalls or bow walls don't work so it wont be defenceless.

It is strongly implied that Sidewalls need a wedge to tie into or they must be spherical (which couldn't be used with Warshawski Sails). I'm pretty sure that there is no textev for the simultaneous use of Warshawski sails and sidewalls of any kind.

Wormhole assaults are the Honorverse equivalent of a Forlorn Hope in 18th and early 19th century European warfare.

Actually it's strongly implied that bubble sidewalks are compatible with sails. Can't remember if it was MTH or SVW that mentioned a few navies had experimented with bubble sidewalks for grav wave combat. That would be extremely risky if you had to drop sails to raise the bubble; you'd have no stabilization; much less ability to maneuver. The first little turbulence in the 'wave would tear the ship apart. But that's not why the idea was dropped; so logically you must have been able to keep sails up.

That said you're right that wormhole assaults are still near suicide. Even a ship with bubble sidewall would be damned vulnerable in a terminus's grav 'lane'. It still can't use CMs, launch missiles, decoys, or LACs (the grav stresses would tear them up even without any attempt to raise a wedge); so it's a little better defended but still subject to a minute or two of laser head attack with only bubble wall, PDLCs, and armor for defense.

Weird Harold wrote:It is strongly implied that Sidewalls need a wedge to tie into or they must be spherical (which couldn't be used with Warshawski Sails).

It is cannon that fore and aft "sidewalls" of ships do not tie into wedges to allow for using the said wedges. And it is explicitly stated that they are planes with portholes for axial weapons. See Mike's explanation when she takes Honor on a tour of her cruiser and explains the two configurations of its "forewall" (I suppose it's the appropriate term ...). I don't remember the exact book, it should be Ashes of Victory or later ?

niethil wrote:It is cannon that fore and aft "sidewalls" of ships do not tie into wedges to allow for using the said wedges. And it is explicitly stated that they are planes with portholes for axial weapons. See Mike's explanation when she takes Honor on a tour of her cruiser and explains the two configurations of its "forewall" (I suppose it's the appropriate term ...). I don't remember the exact book, it should be Ashes of Victory or later ?

No, it is cannon the the conventional bow and stern walls do tie into the wedge like ordinary sidewalls, its why the ship can't accelerate with them up and can only have one up at a time. The new "Buckler" bow wall (and presubmably stern wall, but there hasn't been specific reference to such) doesn't tie to the wedge (visibly at least) and does allow the ship to accelerate with it up, but it is very small (only twice the ship's beam) so only protects against attacks from a narrow angle directly ahead.

Annachie wrote:I kinda like the idea of the LAC carrier wormhole assault ship.
Jump through then use grav launchers to mass launch the LAC which yhen uses reaction thrusters to clear the zone.
I haven't read anything to suggest that sidewalls or bow walls don't work so it wont be defenceless. Add some reaction mass in drop pods for that first minute or two.

Probably impracticle, but potentially do-able.

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LACs do not have Warshawski sails, so they will be torn apart as soon as they leave the CLAC. Nothing can be launched from a ship until the ship leaves the lane.

Grashtel wrote:

niethil wrote:It is cannon that fore and aft "sidewalls" of ships do not tie into wedges to allow for using the said wedges. And it is explicitly stated that they are planes with portholes for axial weapons. See Mike's explanation when she takes Honor on a tour of her cruiser and explains the two configurations of its "forewall" (I suppose it's the appropriate term ...). I don't remember the exact book, it should be Ashes of Victory or later ?

No, it is cannon the the conventional bow and stern walls do tie into the wedge like ordinary sidewalls, its why the ship can't accelerate with them up and can only have one up at a time. The new "Buckler" bow wall (and presubmably stern wall, but there hasn't been specific reference to such) doesn't tie to the wedge (visibly at least) and does allow the ship to accelerate with it up, but it is very small (only twice the ship's beam) so only protects against attacks from a narrow angle directly ahead.

To expand on that:
1) We have never seen, nor had a charactor tell us, that it is possible to raise a buckler wall without an active wedge. Might be possible, might not be; the text sayeth nothing on this.

2) Even if it turns out it's possible in n-space that doesn't mean it's possible to do safely in a wave or terminus lane.

After all sails need tuners to keep then from destructively interacting with turbulence in the 'waves; otherwise interference would blow the nodes.
So even if we assume bucklers can work without wedges you still have the same problem of destructive interference; and further grav tuners add significant size and cost to the Alpha nodes, so it seems unlikely that they'd routinely be built into buckler projectors.

SWM wrote:

Annachie wrote:I kinda like the idea of the LAC carrier wormhole assault ship.
Jump through then use grav launchers to mass launch the LAC which yhen uses reaction thrusters to clear the zone.
I haven't read anything to suggest that sidewalls or bow walls don't work so it wont be defenceless. Add some reaction mass in drop pods for that first minute or two.

Probably impracticle, but potentially do-able.

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LACs do not have Warshawski sails, so they will be torn apart as soon as they leave the CLAC. Nothing can be launched from a ship until the ship leaves the lane.

Unless you can provide an actual quote to that effect I disagree. I can't think of anywhere that that is stated.

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Annachie wrote:

SWM wrote:LACs do not have Warshawski sails, so they will be torn apart as soon as they leave the CLAC. Nothing can be launched from a ship until the ship leaves the lane.

Unless you can provide an actual quote to that effect I disagree. I can't think of anywhere that that is stated.

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Duckk wrote:http://forums.davidweber.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3107&p=69199

Thanks for digging that link up Duckk.
I had remembered that David posting about the vulnerability of ships in the 'lane, but I hadn't gone back to find the exact topic yet.