Official Safehold Speculation Thread

Here's another one. SPOILER




















In The War Against the Fallen, the Church was apparently able to create seijins out of baseline humans. There are hints of medical boosts as well as high-tech tactical gear.

If the Church still had access to that technology they'd be using it. Has Merlin thought about creating seijins if he can? Put some adventurous but tight-lipped ICA officers through Owl's autodoc, possibly unconscious the whole time?

Since seijins by definition fight for good, it would be a propaganda win, in complete contrast to most other battlefield uses of high tech.

Two more, one stretching a point and one too far-fetched but oddly plausible.

The high-tech education machines only work with brain implants installed at birth? There's a newborn heir to the Charisian Empire whose parents have come to trust Merlin. Everyone wants the best for their child, right? It would be realistic for Sharleyan to refuse, though.

The weird one is that the defeated remnants of the CoGA go back in time to become the Gbaba, locked in technological stasis and fanatically and pointless destroying anyone different.

EDIT:
The Temple contains some preparations for a renewed religious war. The good guys are in trouble if that includes a fabber.

EDIT 2:
What if there are other players in the woodwork? Knowledge from the past has been sprouting up all over, with Merlin, the St. Zherneau monastery, and SPOILER all coming to each other's attention about the same time. There could be many more from several possible sources.

Someone who knew about the Archangels's millenial return but had some skepticism about it may have a timer set for shortly before they reappear.

EDIT 3:
If you're willing to do lethal damage to someone's brain, it's possible to copy them into a computer. There are all sorts of espionage targets out there that Merlin would be willing to kill, and eager to upload so he and OWL could study them at leisure. It would be more effective and more reliable than torture as a means of interrogation. Hmm, once uploaded, could you edit the personality? Turn it into an ally?
Also, isn't it about time to introduce photography? Imagine the propaganda value of having an official photographer along when the first concentration camp is liberated. All it would take would be Matthew Brady technology.

EDIT 4:
If there were any Jews on the colonization team, once they caught wind of Langhorne's plan to wipe out all religions but his, they would have bent all their skill and courage to the survival of their identity. How would they have gone about it, and what would have been the results? Are their descendants worshipping in secret, like the hidden Jews of Spain?

Cyntahn is Langhorne ( sorta )

brain implant needing to be inserted in infancy
was overcome in some way.
Langhorne made a copy of his memories and personality
and on accession to grand inquisitor the candidate goes
through a ceremony that secretly loads Langhorne's
memories/personality into the candidate.
The result is probably a melding of the candidate and Langhorne mind.
Once the new inquisitor is in the know, he can make periodic updates to the recording.
It gives Langhorne eternal life and eternal power.

Peppero wrote:Cyntahn is Langhorne ( sorta )

brain implant needing to be inserted in infancy
was overcome in some way.
Langhorne made a copy of his memories and personality
and on accession to grand inquisitor the candidate goes
through a ceremony that secretly loads Langhorne's
memories/personality into the candidate.
The result is probably a melding of the candidate and Langhorne mind.
Once the new inquisitor is in the know, he can make periodic updates to the recording.
It gives Langhorne eternal life and eternal power.

If that were true, he would have recognized the technology being developed in Charis. He would have known that it was coming from Federation records. It is clear that he doesn't, and he doesn't know how to develop the technology to stop it.

Peppero wrote:Cyntahn is Langhorne ( sorta )

brain implant needing to be inserted in infancy
was overcome in some way.
Langhorne made a copy of his memories and personality
and on accession to grand inquisitor the candidate goes
through a ceremony that secretly loads Langhorne's
memories/personality into the candidate.
The result is probably a melding of the candidate and Langhorne mind.
Once the new inquisitor is in the know, he can make periodic updates to the recording.
It gives Langhorne eternal life and eternal power.

No. If he had Langhorne's memories, he would never have aprovedgun powder, and recognized a steasm engine immediately.

SWM wrote:

Peppero wrote:Cyntahn is Langhorne ( sorta )

brain implant needing to be inserted in infancy
was overcome in some way.
Langhorne made a copy of his memories and personality
and on accession to grand inquisitor the candidate goes
through a ceremony that secretly loads Langhorne's
memories/personality into the candidate.
The result is probably a melding of the candidate and Langhorne mind.
Once the new inquisitor is in the know, he can make periodic updates to the recording.
It gives Langhorne eternal life and eternal power.

If that were true, he would have recognized the technology being developed in Charis. He would have known that it was coming from Federation records. It is clear that he doesn't, and he doesn't know how to develop the technology to stop it.

Agreed
IF Cyntahn is in the know about the truth.
He has then know something is up since he first saw Arabic numerals in OAR.
Base ten could be reinvented But using the same character set - a bit unlikely.
and Merlin has an incautious habit of taking names for inventions from old earth.
That should also be a give away to any watcher.
( yes - DW may be translating for us )

But there has been comments in the forums that his reaction to steam engines was - odd.

And I have been suspicious of Clytahn since How firm a foundation. ( page 82 )
Clyntahn and others are talking about the "exploding ships" from the end of the previous book.

"There wasn,t any deviltry, involved"
Clyntahn snapped "It was probably ---"
He broke off with an angry chop of his right hand.

In short it could be he knew about shells before hand.

So if he knows, the question becomes what can he do.
He does not know the exact source.
He has to stay in character of not knowing about tech.
He wants to minimize the tech he introduces and he
cant be the source of a thousand inventions.
He wants to save his one shot bombardment system.

With his limitations launching a war to pillage Charis and escalating it to a jihad when things go bad.
seems to be a response that is reasonable.

I could accept he is ignorant of the truth or tech.
But I think is as just as likely he knows something.

But Im having fun imagining ways he could be in the know.
This was the first.

p.s. it need

Peppero wrote:But there has been comments in the forums that his reaction to steam engines was - odd.

And I have been suspicious of Clytahn since How firm a foundation. ( page 82 )
Clyntahn and others are talking about the "exploding ships" from the end of the previous book.

"There wasn,t any deviltry, involved"
Clyntahn snapped "It was probably ---"
He broke off with an angry chop of his right hand.

In short it could be he knew about shells before hand.

So if he knows, the question becomes what can he do.
He does not know the exact source.
He has to stay in character of not knowing about tech.
He wants to minimize the tech he introduces and he
cant be the source of a thousand inventions.
He wants to save his one shot bombardment system.

With his limitations launching a war to pillage Charis and escalating it to a jihad when things go bad.
seems to be a response that is reasonable.

I could accept he is ignorant of the truth or tech.
But I think is as just as likely he knows something.

But Im having fun imagining ways he could be in the know.
This was the first.

p.s. it need

I hate to be a wet blanket, but Clyntahn has had spies in Charis about which he has not wanted to inform the others in the Group of Four. (For that matter, he's got a keen appreciation of operational security needs and doesn't know more than he must about them himself.) Hints about exploding shells and steam engines are plausible from such sources. They wouldn't have to be too sensitively placed to be able to get at least some slight indications of such capabilities, and that would also account for how much Clyntahn isn't demonstrating he knows about. Getting that much information to someone willing to spy for Langhorne's true Church would not be hard, and they have had the networks to get information out of Charis reliably if slowly.

Peppero wrote:
Agreed
IF Cyntahn is in the know about the truth.
He has then know something is up since he first saw Arabic numerals in OAR.
Base ten could be reinvented But using the same character set - a bit unlikely.
and Merlin has an incautious habit of taking names for inventions from old earth.
That should also be a give away to any watcher.
( yes - DW may be translating for us )

But there has been comments in the forums that his reaction to steam engines was - odd.

And I have been suspicious of Clytahn since How firm a foundation. ( page 82 )
Clyntahn and others are talking about the "exploding ships" from the end of the previous book.

"There wasn,t any deviltry, involved"
Clyntahn snapped "It was probably ---"
He broke off with an angry chop of his right hand.

In short it could be he knew about shells before hand.

So if he knows, the question becomes what can he do.
He does not know the exact source.
He has to stay in character of not knowing about tech.
He wants to minimize the tech he introduces and he
cant be the source of a thousand inventions.
He wants to save his one shot bombardment system.

With his limitations launching a war to pillage Charis and escalating it to a jihad when things go bad.
seems to be a response that is reasonable.

I could accept he is ignorant of the truth or tech.
But I think is as just as likely he knows something.

But Im having fun imagining ways he could be in the know.
This was the first.

p.s. it need

He did know about shells beforehand. He had reports about shells from the spy inside the powderworks. We know he was getting reports about shells and many other Charisian advances, and wasn't sharing them with his fellow members of the Group of Four. There is absolutely no reason to conclude that he knows anything more about advanced technology than the reports he has been getting.

SWM wrote:

Peppero wrote:
Agreed
IF Cyntahn is in the know about the truth.
He has then know something is up since he first saw Arabic numerals in OAR.
Base ten could be reinvented But using the same character set - a bit unlikely.
and Merlin has an incautious habit of taking names for inventions from old earth.
That should also be a give away to any watcher.
( yes - DW may be translating for us )

But there has been comments in the forums that his reaction to steam engines was - odd.

And I have been suspicious of Clytahn since How firm a foundation. ( page 82 )
Clyntahn and others are talking about the "exploding ships" from the end of the previous book.

"There wasn,t any deviltry, involved"
Clyntahn snapped "It was probably ---"
He broke off with an angry chop of his right hand.

In short it could be he knew about shells before hand.

So if he knows, the question becomes what can he do.
He does not know the exact source.
He has to stay in character of not knowing about tech.
He wants to minimize the tech he introduces and he
cant be the source of a thousand inventions.
He wants to save his one shot bombardment system.

With his limitations launching a war to pillage Charis and escalating it to a jihad when things go bad.
seems to be a response that is reasonable.

I could accept he is ignorant of the truth or tech.
But I think is as just as likely he knows something.

But Im having fun imagining ways he could be in the know.
This was the first.

p.s. it need

He did know about shells beforehand. He had reports about shells from the spy inside the powderworks. We know he was getting reports about shells and many other Charisian advances, and wasn't sharing them with his fellow members of the Group of Four. There is absolutely no reason to conclude that he knows anything more about advanced technology than the reports he has been getting.

Absolutely. Further it would imply that he knew the whole story from the Temple's point of view, that he is aware of even if he doesn't have access to the OBS, and that he has access to his own version of Owl and TF tech. None of this is the case.

Don

What happens if someone discovers a life form on Safehold equivalent to an electric eel?

"I'm not profaning Langhorne's holy fire, just making an artificial eel!", or run the telegraph off an aquarium instead of a battery.

It would nicely undermine the psychology of the Proscriptions.. The OBS might not appreciate the logic, though.