Early Warning Picket for Beowulf

I've been thinking about the Allies concerns about an SLN attack on Beowulf (as discussed during the wedding reception in ART), and was wondering if they could place ships in a way to effectively detect and warn the allies and Beowulf of an imminent SLN attack.

I am not aware as to whether Beowulf is in or near a gravity wave. That would make things more difficult in some ways, easier in others.

Assuming no gravity wave, detection range in hyper is about 20 light minutes, although that might be stretched a tad for +100 SDs and escorts. Assuming that the SLN forces went for a more-or-less straight line approach to Beowulf, a ship placed along that axis on the Epsilon band would have a multiplier of 2882x. That would give a detection range equivalent in normal space of 40 light-days, which I mention only in passing that I would hope the SLN wouldn't miss Beowulf by that much.

Anyway, assuming the SLN was approaching at 0.5c, they would appear on gravitics about 40 minutes before they were right on top of them. Assuming the allies placed pickets 15 lm (in Epsilon) away from the hyper limit, and a ship to receive the warning at the hyper limit, they should be able to get a warning ~50 minutes before the SLN force arrived. Note that this assumes that grav pulses also can be detected at 15 light minutes.

They would also need to have ships in other bands as well, but probably not the alpha or beta or theta bands. So, call it 10 ships. One or two more on a path to the wormhole.

Does this seem reasonable?

Now, I personally would place at some of the allied forces in hyper at the alpha limit, using mercies to make up the numerical difference at the wormhole junction, but I'm assuming they didn't do that.

How long would it take for allied forces to reach the Beowulf hyper limit from the Beowulf side of the junction? DW once said that forces could intercept an attack short of reaching Beowulf, but I haven't done the math. For one thing, I don't know what readiness state their hyper generators would be in, how long to spin them up, how long to jump to the Gamma or Delta band, accelerate to the hyper limit, drop several levels back to normal space.

Of course, the SLN could use an attack on Beowulf as a distraction to attack Manticore through the wormhole junction, but not ever they're that stupid, are they?

-- Bob G

BobG wrote:I've been thinking about the Allies concerns about an SLN attack on Beowulf (as discussed during the wedding reception in ART), and was wondering if they could place ships in a way to effectively detect and warn the allies and Beowulf of an imminent SLN attack.

I am not aware as to whether Beowulf is in or near a gravity wave. That would make things more difficult in some ways, easier in others.

Assuming no gravity wave, detection range in hyper is about 20 light minutes, although that might be stretched a tad for +100 SDs and escorts. Assuming that the SLN forces went for a more-or-less straight line approach to Beowulf, a ship placed along that axis on the Epsilon band would have a multiplier of 2882x. That would give a detection range equivalent in normal space of 40 light-days, which I mention only in passing that I would hope the SLN wouldn't miss Beowulf by that much.

Anyway, assuming the SLN was approaching at 0.5c, they would appear on gravitics about 40 minutes before they were right on top of them. Assuming the allies placed pickets 15 lm (in Epsilon) away from the hyper limit, and a ship to receive the warning at the hyper limit, they should be able to get a warning ~50 minutes before the SLN force arrived. Note that this assumes that grav pulses also can be detected at 15 light minutes.

They would also need to have ships in other bands as well, but probably not the alpha or beta or theta bands. So, call it 10 ships. One or two more on a path to the wormhole.

Does this seem reasonable?

Now, I personally would place at some of the allied forces in hyper at the alpha limit, using mercies to make up the numerical difference at the wormhole junction, but I'm assuming they didn't do that.

How long would it take for allied forces to reach the Beowulf hyper limit from the Beowulf side of the junction? DW once said that forces could intercept an attack short of reaching Beowulf, but I haven't done the math. For one thing, I don't know what readiness state their hyper generators would be in, how long to spin them up, how long to jump to the Gamma or Delta band, accelerate to the hyper limit, drop several levels back to normal space.

Of course, the SLN could use an attack on Beowulf as a distraction to attack Manticore through the wormhole junction, but not ever they're that stupid, are they?

-- Bob G

Actually, I'm thinking that within a short period of time if not already, Beowulf near space has probably got a number of FTL units tied into their detection net [which was already probably pretty good because of Mesa related constructive paranoia post Oyster Bay], so that the moment any multi-ship formations cross the limit, the GA forces including Beowulf have advanced high quality information on the size, direction, acceleration, etc. nearly immediately. Might even have some drones set to "follow any attack fleet in". That gives them plenty of warning to set up all sorts of nasty surprises and flagship and squadron command ship killing tricks in advance. Be sorta interesting to see what the rest of an SLN force would do if in the first ka-bang, their admirals are all dead.

One in my opinion very elegant way to make sure, that Beowulf has all the safety it needs before Mycroft can come online, would be, to put a squadron or two of RMN SD(P)s into Beowulf Orbit.

And yes, I know all the political reasons why that would be regarded a REALLY BAD IDEA - and that it would be, normally. But assuming the crew of the squadron or two all have Beowulfan heritage? I mean, Honor herself is half Beowulfan, because of her mother! And she is hardly the only one; in fact, it was said (in ART, if I remember correctly) that marriages between people of Beowulf and Manticore are regarded a very common fact of life in both systems.

So I would not at all be surprised, if you would find enough people in the RMN to man the abovesaid squadron or two of SD(P)s and borrow it to the Beowulf System Defense Force. Only question I see is - is enough work-up time available to drill the new accumulated crews, ships and divisions into a coherent unit?

Eagleeye wrote:One in my opinion very elegant way to make sure, that Beowulf has all the safety it needs before Mycroft can come online, would be, to put a squadron or two of RMN SD(P)s into Beowulf Orbit.

And yes, I know all the political reasons why that would be regarded a REALLY BAD IDEA - and that it would be, normally. But assuming the crew of the squadron or two all have Beowulfan heritage? I mean, Honor herself is half Beowulfan, because of her mother! And she is hardly the only one; in fact, it was said (in ART, if I remember correctly) that marriages between people of Beowulf and Manticore are regarded a very common fact of life in both systems.

So I would not at all be surprised, if you would find enough people in the RMN to man the abovesaid squadron or two of SD(P)s and borrow it to the Beowulf System Defense Force. Only question I see is - is enough work-up time available to drill the new accumulated crews, ships and divisions into a coherent unit?

Post election, possible. Pre-election, not so much. But force wise, they don't have to be near Beowulf, just accessible, and even ust a set of SAG-C's plus system defense pods are enough to wax any incoming SLN formations in job lots. Had the 2nd and third launches gone off at Spindle for effect, for example, there would likely have been NO surviving SD's in Crandall's formation, who were still many million kilometers from attack range of their own.

My prior pet plan has a plenipotentiary (likely Honor or Michael Mayhew, depending on the "seller") available to transition into the system, who can sign over enough of said -C's or GSN equivalent ships to the Beowulfan's the moment an SLN formation comes over the wall. Said person signs then orders the transmission of the signed agreement to Beowulf's leadeship, then departs the wormhole with their copy and the "payment chips" that make it a valid agreement, then heads back "home" the moment that incursion takes place.

That lets a pure Beowulfan SDF go to work and buh-bye attacking SLN admirals and ships until the SLN surrender flag is waved yet again.

Is there a reason the Andermani can't send... "observers"? I mean, they have no bone with the League, after all, do they? They said so. [No innocent angel smileys, I see...]

Take care.

Ferran wrote:Is there a reason the Andermani can't send... "observers"? I mean, they have no bone with the League, after all, do they? They said so. [No innocent angel smileys, I see...]

Take care.

The Grand Alliance needs Anderman to "discuss things" with the Alignment (remember, the Malign meddled with the Anderman succession), even if the GA itself doesn't have the vessels available, because it is distracted by the SLN. That chance to deal thoroughly with Mr. Detweiler and Co. despite such distractions could be in danger, should the SL gets the impression that Anderman tends in its neutrality towards the GA. More, if the SLN-Admiral on the spot in Beowulf is crazy enough, he or she could open fire against anderman personnel or vessels.

The GA is sufficient to keep the SLN away, so there's no need for the Andermani to position any ships in the vicintity of Beowulf at this point in the stories; they don't have a direct bone to pick with the SLN. With Honor's discussions with Herzog von Rabenstrange in play, likely they've already discussed contingencies and when/if they need to re-ally. It's sort of like letting your friendly associated big power mind part of the spaceways and threaten one enemy while you selectively decimate the other, knowing that push comes to shove you'll fight together wherever needed.

I don't think the Andermani feel any compulsion to change that, but they do have good reason to play hulk smash on any MAlign interests that turn up in the mean time.

SharkHunter wrote:The GA is sufficient to keep the SLN away, so there's no need for the Andermani to position any ships in the vicintity of Beowulf at this point in the stories; they don't have a direct bone to pick with the SLN. With Honor's discussions with Herzog von Rabenstrange in play, likely they've already discussed contingencies and when/if they need to re-ally. It's sort of like letting your friendly associated big power mind part of the spaceways and threaten one enemy while you selectively decimate the other, knowing that push comes to shove you'll fight together wherever needed.

I don't think the Andermani feel any compulsion to change that, but they do have good reason to play hulk smash on any MAlign interests that turn up in the mean time.

Agreed. How about the Andermani Navy getting some more screen time (I am hoping that some future books will have more chapters on the Andermani side) by going directly for anything Manpower related. Suspected Slave depots, Pleasure Resorts, extending their brand of protection and help (which unlike OFS is genuine) to some potentially secessionist systems in the Verge and Shell. While the GA and any future allies deal with the SLN and its breakup, the Andermani could pretty much be given hunting licenses to go to town on anything that smacks of the Slave Trade.

(And in so doing they could discover a few things the Alignment wouldn't want them too ... travelling dead Mesan Scientists perhaps. This would give the Andermani a bigger hand in helping the war against the Alignment, start paying some of the debt Mesa owes them, and allow them a spot in the sun for a while while showing some of their vaunted military prowess).

Eagleeye wrote: One in my opinion very elegant way to make sure, that Beowulf has all the safety it needs before Mycroft can come online, would be, to put a squadron or two of RMN SD(P)s into Beowulf Orbit.

I'd have thought that the quickest solution would be for Haven to strip one (or more) of their existing Moriarty platforms from a second-rank system and ship it to Beowulf. This also avoids any political consequences of a GA deployment in Beowulf orbit

Moriarty may be obsolete when compared to Mycroft, but it should be able to deal with SLN ships.

Then, once Mycroft is fully tested, it can be installed to replace Moriarty.

wyrm wrote:

Eagleeye wrote: One in my opinion very elegant way to make sure, that Beowulf has all the safety it needs before Mycroft can come online, would be, to put a squadron or two of RMN SD(P)s into Beowulf Orbit.

I'd have thought that the quickest solution would be for Haven to strip one (or more) of their existing Moriarty platforms from a second-rank system and ship it to Beowulf. This also avoids any political consequences of a GA deployment in Beowulf orbit

Moriarty may be obsolete when compared to Mycroft, but it should be able to deal with SLN ships.

Then, once Mycroft is fully tested, it can be installed to replace Moriarty.

Keyhole 2 platforms with beamed power from a BSDF ship may do that too, without so much shipping. I doubt Keyhole 2 platforms from the RMN can offer any appearance of Manticoran strongarming.