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Jeune École

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Jeune École
Post by ErrantVenture   » Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:17 pm

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With the development of rifled shell guns for naval combat and the ICN's move towards developing Battleship warfare, will we see the emergence of a Jeune École on safehold? Do Thirk's screw-galleys represent something of a Safeholdian Jeune École?
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Re: Jeune École
Post by MTO   » Fri Jul 17, 2015 10:03 pm

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ErrantVenture wrote:With the development of rifled shell guns for naval combat and the ICN's move towards developing Battleship warfare, will we see the emergence of a Jeune École on safehold? Do Thirk's screw-galleys represent something of a Safeholdian Jeune École?


Thing is, by now, the inner circle has read enough about naval warfare development that I'm sure they know what Jeune École is. At the least, the Nimues do for sure, given that they are a naval officer.
For the JE to happen though, they'd need powerful enough guns on an otherwise small light and fast boat. Are the screw-galleys fast? I took them as just an experiment in trying to understand how the ironclads worked.
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Re: Jeune École
Post by Dilandu   » Sat Jul 18, 2015 3:04 am

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Er, actually, what Charis already doing IS the Jeune Ecole essential principle of "technology determine the strategy and tactics". The Jeune Ecole is not just "small ships instead big ones"; the Jeune Ecole main principle is that the all strategical and tactical assumptions should be based on the most effective technology avaliable.Currently, there simply no any "old school" on Safehold at all.
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Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: Jeune École
Post by AirTech   » Sat Jul 18, 2015 3:17 pm

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Dilandu wrote:Er, actually, what Charis already doing IS the Jeune Ecole essential principle of "technology determine the strategy and tactics". The Jeune Ecole is not just "small ships instead big ones"; the Jeune Ecole main principle is that the all strategical and tactical assumptions should be based on the most effective technology avaliable.Currently, there simply no any "old school" on Safehold at all.


I think building galleys of any sort qualifies as old school. A galley by its nature is a sitting duck for a ramming attack from a steam ship - an unarmed freighter could take one out (at the possible risk of boarding).
Why?
A human powered ship must be of light weight construction and shallow draft to maximize its speed (think racing shell writ large).
A steam ship has to have a heavy frame to absorb the energy of the engine and the higher speeds it is driven to. Most steam ships have high free board too, as they are true blue water cruisers and far heavier, not a shell scooting out of a port in short bursts.
Hit a galley in the middle fast enough and it will fold round the bow of the steam ship and rapidly sink. (A galleon with 24" planking is a different matter and may even bounce).
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Re: Jeune École
Post by Dilandu   » Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:59 am

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AirTech wrote:I think building galleys of any sort qualifies as old school. A galley by its nature is a sitting duck for a ramming attack from a steam ship - an unarmed freighter could take one out (at the possible risk of boarding).


No, they aren't, if the tactic of using them is modern.

Hit a galley in the middle fast enough and it will fold round the bow of the steam ship and rapidly sink. (A galleon with 24" planking is a different matter and may even bounce).


Er... actually, the galley have a MUCH better chance to avoid the ramming attacks. She could move independent of the wind - at least temporarely. The galleon - it would not bounce, because it would be just crushed, being unable to avoid the strike of several thousand tonns of mass, moving at the several miles per hour.

See "Virginia vs Cumberland"; the perfect example of even relatively slow ram against sailship.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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