Sting Ships

JeffEngel wrote:

Jonathan_S wrote:Given the role I thought sting ships had an impeller doesn't make much sense. If you're going that far out from a planet use a real pinnace or assault shuttle...

Do you suppose it's for nipping around to the other side of a planet very quickly? Head up to minimum wedge usage height, blip to target area, descend?

In one or another of the later books (Im only back upto Ashes from my latest re-read for all our lovely debates), I swear a bunch of sting ships came racing in at high Mach numbers to settle in. Or was it they peeled off at high mach for an intercept?


I suppose it could theoretically for the sting ship to go upto low orbit, crank her up, and then descend again, but the big arsed SS Assault Shuttles Honor used were capable of pretty fast flight just using their air breathing engines. And shuttle 2 when it went after the courier boat made a hot ascent using air breather before it kicked over to impellers.

Jonathan_S wrote:

kzt wrote:HoS "The Royal Manticoran Army"

"The Viper is the standard single-seat stingship operated by the Army, a high performance impeller-drive hypersonic attack fighter capable of operations from “treetops to low orbit” as well as limited space capability."


Though I don't think it says it has treads....

Of course. One spot that used "stingship" where most places use "sting ship" and so I missed it in my ebb ok searches.

I really need to find a much smarter search tool for this stuff. Able to automatically handle spaces or hyphens or compound words. Able to support NEAR keyword. Able to build Boolean searches. Having an understanding of at least plurals or possessives; so gravity would also match gravities, but not gravitas.

And I know that feeling, I'm about ready to rage throw Google Play out the damned window and start using a different ebook reader. It's search strings are terrible, let alone the inability to organize my books from a jumble.

Somtaaw wrote:And I know that feeling, I'm about ready to rage throw Google Play out the damned window and start using a different ebook reader. It's search strings are terrible, let alone the inability to organize my books from a jumble.

I knew it was somewhere in HoS, and I just used the search function in word to find it.

kzt wrote:

Somtaaw wrote:And I know that feeling, I'm about ready to rage throw Google Play out the damned window and start using a different ebook reader. It's search strings are terrible, let alone the inability to organize my books from a jumble.

I knew it was somewhere in HoS, and I just used the search function in word to find it.

In the "Fury" series, David calls them Sting ships too, that might be throwing off some memories.

also in the prince roger books. well the last one anyway.

Just noticed this thread.
It is the East Cay Agreement that restricts the RMA's sting ships, it is a prohibition against 'interplanetary' design, generally taken to mean a greater than alight-minute from the surface of a planet opperational radius. It has been waived on occation. It s supposed to prevent the Navy from trying to possess sting ships, and the Army from trying to make pinnances and assault shuttles.

HungryKing wrote:Just noticed this thread.
It is the East Cay Agreement that restricts the RMA's sting ships, it is a prohibition against 'interplanetary' design, generally taken to mean a greater than alight-minute from the surface of a planet opperational radius. It has been waived on occation. It s supposed to prevent the Navy from trying to possess sting ships, and the Army from trying to make pinnances and assault shuttles.

Do you have a reference for that?

Grashtel wrote:

HungryKing wrote:Just noticed this thread.
It is the East Cay Agreement that restricts the RMA's sting ships, it is a prohibition against 'interplanetary' design, generally taken to mean a greater than alight-minute from the surface of a planet opperational radius. It has been waived on occation. It s supposed to prevent the Navy from trying to possess sting ships, and the Army from trying to make pinnances and assault shuttles.

Do you have a reference for that?

It's in House of Steel

With regards sting ships I thought I would add my tuppence worth.

In just the same way that the RAF operated both high & low altitude variants of the Spitfire during WWII from reading what has been written I thought that the sting ships were divided between exo-atmospheric capable; (those capable of operating outside an atmosphere) & endo-atmospheric capable; (those capable of operating only within an atmosphere): (The Royal Manticoran Army section in House of Steel does refer to both atmospheric & trans-atmospheric fighters).

For the exo-atmospheric capable they probably would need an impeller drive although not all spacecraft do use impellers; (read the several references throughout the novels to reaction drive cutters). In that sense they probably function like a high speed point defence interceptor such as the English Electric Lightning; (although with a lot more endurance probably). They would also be equipped with counter-grav but only to aid them with take-off &in an atmosphere they would rely on lift from their wings or the like. (They COULD be Lifting Bodies).

In an atmosphere the impellor drive would function somewhat like an open sided jet engine increasing the atmospheric density & thus drag & friction: (There is a wonderful line from the pilot episode of the 1970's British TV series UFO where the lead character, Ed Straker says, 'Thank god for our atmosphere. It's the best line of defence we've got.' Obviously the situations are dissimilar but you get the idea).

With regards size, given that they have to be equipped with impellors, I thought they would be somewhat larger than current fighters, more along the size of the North American A5 Vigilante, the North American XF-108 Rapier or the Avro Canada CF-105 Arrow. I presume they would also be equipped with internal weapons bays just like the F-22A Raptor & F35 Lightning II.

With regards to the atmospheric fighters I thought that they would be smaller & not use impellors. Instead they would be equipped of the 41st Century's equivalent of the SCIMITAR engine, which is the air-breathing non-space capable variant of the SABRE engine currently being developed by Reaction Engines Ltd. I imagined something more along the lines of a Boeing FA-18E/F Super Hornet. Again they would be equipped with counter-grav for take-off & landing but would rely on their aerodynamic surfaces.

Thoughts anyone?

Rincewind wrote:With regards sting ships I thought I would add my tuppence worth.

In just the same way that the RAF operated both high & low altitude variants of the Spitfire during WWII from reading what has been written I thought that the sting ships were divided between exo-atmospheric capable; (those capable of operating outside an atmosphere) & endo-atmospheric capable; (those capable of operating only within an atmosphere): (The Royal Manticoran Army section in House of Steel does refer to both atmospheric & trans-atmospheric fighters).

For the exo-atmospheric capable they probably would need an impeller drive although not all spacecraft do use impellers; (read the several references throughout the novels to reaction drive cutters). In that sense they probably function like a high speed point defence interceptor such as the English Electric Lightning; (although with a lot more endurance probably). They would also be equipped with counter-grav but only to aid them with take-off &in an atmosphere they would rely on lift from their wings or the like. (They COULD be Lifting Bodies).

In an atmosphere the impellor drive would function somewhat like an open sided jet engine increasing the atmospheric density & thus drag & friction: (There is a wonderful line from the pilot episode of the 1970's British TV series UFO where the lead character, Ed Straker says, 'Thank god for our atmosphere. It's the best line of defence we've got.' Obviously the situations are dissimilar but you get the idea).

With regards size, given that they have to be equipped with impellors, I thought they would be somewhat larger than current fighters, more along the size of the North American A5 Vigilante, the North American XF-108 Rapier or the Avro Canada CF-105 Arrow. I presume they would also be equipped with internal weapons bays just like the F-22A Raptor & F35 Lightning II.

With regards to the atmospheric fighters I thought that they would be smaller & not use impellors. Instead they would be equipped of the 41st Century's equivalent of the SCIMITAR engine, which is the air-breathing non-space capable variant of the SABRE engine currently being developed by Reaction Engines Ltd. I imagined something more along the lines of a Boeing FA-18E/F Super Hornet. Again they would be equipped with counter-grav for take-off & landing but would rely on their aerodynamic surfaces.

Thoughts anyone?

I think "Sting Ship" is just a generic moniker in the Honorverse for any sort of craft with the primary air to ground or air to air function. We've seen F-111 sized air-breathing multi-Mach trainers, Exo-atmosopheric escorts, and hovering, airbreathing escorts and ground to air craft. It wouldn't surprise me if there were many different specialist models around the Honorverse, each with different capabilities. As our militaries have found, one size rarely fits all.

With the RMA, however, I would expect there only to be a couple of models, as the RMA can afford better hardware than most and, like every military, would prefer it to be as Multi-role as possible.

Theemile wrote: I think "Sting Ship" is just a generic moniker in the Honorverse for any sort of craft with the primary air to ground or air to air function. We've seen F-111 sized air-breathing multi-Mach trainers, Exo-atmosopheric escorts, and hovering, airbreathing escorts and ground to air craft. It wouldn't surprise me if there were many different specialist models around the Honorverse, each with different capabilities. As our militaries have found, one size rarely fits all.

With the RMA, however, I would expect there only to be a couple of models, as the RMA can afford better hardware than most and, like every military, would prefer it to be as Multi-role as possible.

Actually in the Honorverse Companion section on the Royal Manticoran Army it does refer to atmospheric craft & trans-atmospheric craft separately & the latter are referred to as sting ships.

The section is as follows:
The Royal Army is primarily a mechanized force, consisting of regular, armoured and assault infantry units; armoured units; engineering units; heavy ground defence units; and aerial units, including both atmospheric and trans-atmospheric fighters (sting ships).