making a mark while on a throne.

munroburton wrote:Back to Manticore, there's a great deal of constitutional changes coming. Talbott and Silesia do not have an aristocratic tradition and Talbott will have equal voting rights within 75 years. I suspect that's why the Star Empire was established as a layer above the OSK - so the OSK could still pull out way down the line if one or several of the Empire's quadrants ends up in control of the Imperial Parliament.

Given the addition of Talbot and Silesia (and quite possibly other systems, as the League falls apart), the sense of continuity from a monarch reigning for 100+ years could be a real asset. Assuming nothing untoward happens to Elizabeth, by the time she died the there would have been decades for the new constitutional arrangements to bed down and for the new member systems to acclimatise to the Manticoran way of doing things.

--snipping--

Jonathan_S wrote:at least in the decreasing reign times I wouldn't be surprised if Elizabeth and Roger plan to start a tradition of stepping down after a century or so on the throne. That would (hopefully) allow for an orderly transition and tend to stabilize the ages of assertion and length of rule. So you don't end up growing stake as the heir for 90% of your adult life.

But only training and practice are likely to help going up against political operators who've been perfecting their skills for centuries.

I think you're exactly right: look at how much King Roger looked to his mother for guidance as she aged. Let's assume an expanded Manticore -- it's possible there could be several different sectors/quadrants/ whatever you want to call it where the "Crown or Heirs of House Winton" matter. If Roger is now the King in the SEM, Elizabeth might be out mentoring Prince So and So who is the SEM representative in _________,

It might be like a parallel Universe of a Prince William being tutored by QEII to assist "Australia" if that were not a fully functional entity, for 60 years or so, then rotating home to be the King, etc. [though I think the House of Winton is historically more honorable than the Tudors/Windsors over all. Victoria and QE II have been the best of the best there.]

Erls wrote:Assuming that the "10,000 hour rule" exists in the Honorverse (ie, the time it takes to full master something), then an heir who is 100 years old and has spent roughly 80 of those years preparing (in part) to become the ruler would definitely put them well over that mark.

Experience in politics helps: But, is there much of a difference between someone with 10 years as a Senator compared to someone with 30 years? Not really... I would think the same would be true for Manticore. The first 10-15 years in politics the person learns a hell of a lot, and after that they level out in their abilities and the only factor that defines them is their seniority.

Basically, a lord who has spent 200 years in the SEM House of Lords probably has very little additional political skills as a lord with 20 years experience. Now, the lord with 200 years will have a lot more relationships, debts, and friendships to call upon - but not really any more experience as the law of diminishing returns sets in.

Well also, it's like with Lord Cromarty and Lord Willie Alexander. Cromarty had spent what, upwards of 40 T-years as the Manticoran Prime Minister, most of that in successive electrions. He undoubtedly had hundreds of favors owed, from horse-trading over the years.

When Cromarty was assassinated, it didn't matter that Willie Alexander was his hand-picked successor, any favors owed to Cromarty became null and void upon his death.

Now while the Crown has slightly less need than the PM for horse-trading and favors. Look at all the hoops Roger had to jump through before he became King, and what his mother and he "wanted" to do, was vastly different from what they did instead. Imagine if you will, Manticore where Elizabeth's Regency Council did not include her Aunt, or Cromarty, and was actually filled with Liberals and Conservatives. Manticore's anti-Haven military buildup would have been strangled, Gram probably wouldn't have had funding slashed or even disbanded.

Getting into politics early, and getting markers to possibly use at a later time, helps the Crown. And by voluntarily stepping down before death, each King or Queen can still cash in on those favors while the Heir is settling into their new role as King/Queen.

Somtaaw wrote:

Erls wrote:Assuming that the "10,000 hour rule" exists in the Honorverse (ie, the time it takes to full master something), then an heir who is 100 years old and has spent roughly 80 of those years preparing (in part) to become the ruler would definitely put them well over that mark.

Experience in politics helps: But, is there much of a difference between someone with 10 years as a Senator compared to someone with 30 years? Not really... I would think the same would be true for Manticore. The first 10-15 years in politics the person learns a hell of a lot, and after that they level out in their abilities and the only factor that defines them is their seniority.

Basically, a lord who has spent 200 years in the SEM House of Lords probably has very little additional political skills as a lord with 20 years experience. Now, the lord with 200 years will have a lot more relationships, debts, and friendships to call upon - but not really any more experience as the law of diminishing returns sets in.

Well also, it's like with Lord Cromarty and Lord Willie Alexander. Cromarty had spent what, upwards of 40 T-years as the Manticoran Prime Minister, most of that in successive electrions. He undoubtedly had hundreds of favors owed, from horse-trading over the years.

When Cromarty was assassinated, it didn't matter that Willie Alexander was his hand-picked successor, any favors owed to Cromarty became null and void upon his death.

Now while the Crown has slightly less need than the PM for horse-trading and favors. Look at all the hoops Roger had to jump through before he became King, and what his mother and he "wanted" to do, was vastly different from what they did instead. Imagine if you will, Manticore where Elizabeth's Regency Council did not include her Aunt, or Cromarty, and was actually filled with Liberals and Conservatives. Manticore's anti-Haven military buildup would have been strangled, Gram probably wouldn't have had funding slashed or even disbanded.

Getting into politics early, and getting markers to possibly use at a later time, helps the Crown. And by voluntarily stepping down before death, each King or Queen can still cash in on those favors while the Heir is settling into their new role as King/Queen.

That also speaks of a valid reason for the heir to enter politics early. If he is put in a position where he could "intervene" with the monarch while heir, he could start collecting those favors early.

One could imagine the Monarch and Heir "manufacturing" conditions where the Monarch initially stands firm on a subject, but caves after the Heir "spoke" with them on behalf of a subject, even though the final outcome was one they wanted (or were unopposed to) all along.

In such a situation, both the Heir and Monarch collect the favor separately - the Monarch for ultimately supporting his subject's cause, and the Heir, for the intercession. After a few intercessions, the heir would be able to start building a power block of his own, separate from the power base of the Monarch. As long as the 2 were aligned in cause, such a situation would be overall beneficial, with those normally opposed to the Monarch sometimes becoming indebted to the heir.

Such backpedaling couldn't happen too often or else the Monarch could be seen as being too soft, but if the Monarch and Heir were known to get into deep debates on the subject of governing, one would believe that the Monarch could be so swayed (without caving).

Dafmeister wrote:

munroburton wrote:Back to Manticore, there's a great deal of constitutional changes coming. Talbott and Silesia do not have an aristocratic tradition and Talbott will have equal voting rights within 75 years. I suspect that's why the Star Empire was established as a layer above the OSK - so the OSK could still pull out way down the line if one or several of the Empire's quadrants ends up in control of the Imperial Parliament.

Given the addition of Talbot and Silesia (and quite possibly other systems, as the League falls apart), the sense of continuity from a monarch reigning for 100+ years could be a real asset. Assuming nothing untoward happens to Elizabeth, by the time she died the there would have been decades for the new constitutional arrangements to bed down and for the new member systems to acclimatize to the Manticoran way of doing things.

The thing is we don't know the types of local governments, some of the governments in Talbott and Silesia have. For all we know Lynx could be the Grand Duchy of Lynx and Scarlet could be the Principality of Scarlet much like the Kingdom of Meyers.

Any normal person would get tired of being King or Queen after a hundred years or so of back-stabbing factional squabbles, and be more than ready to dump the job on somebody else. After two hundred years, they'd be ready to dump it on ANYbody else.
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If you're going to "make your mark on the throne", be sure it's not a skid-mark.