making a mark while on a throne.

Okay, this is all rough around the edges, cause i'm not quite sure at the actual ages involved so bear with me.

If Elisabeth, drops dead on her 301st birthday, presuming she makes it thanks to prolong. (I think that was the estimated age for a prolong recipient) She will have had, 200+ years to make her mark on Manticore.

Junior, i mean roger, will then have maybe 80 years to do the same? Now he married in his twenties, and people being people, they'll be looking for a babybump, as soon as he and Rivka get back from their honeymoon.

Provided they do indeed have a junior junior, that early he/she will have 20/30 years to do his/her thing. (which was still an option, seeing how childrearing was something most people will still do early in life)

With people around who might still remember grandmother, not to mention daddy, and their good works. Or from a less pleasant perspective have centuries worth of experience at politics.

Doesn't anyone else think that might spell trouble, if a new High Ridge or some other bastard takes the throne?

Spitfire80 wrote:Okay, this is all rough around the edges, cause i'm not quite sure at the actual ages involved so bear with me.

If Elisabeth, drops dead on her 301st birthday, presuming she makes it thanks to prolong. (I think that was the estimated age for a prolong recipient) She will have had, 200+ years to make her mark on Manticore.

Junior, i mean roger, will then have maybe 80 years to do the same? Now he married in his twenties, and people being people, they'll be looking for a babybump, as soon as he and Rivka get back from their honeymoon.

Provided they do indeed have a junior junior, that early he/she will have 20/30 years to do his/her thing. (which was still an option, seeing how childrearing was something most people will still do early in life)

With people around who might still remember grandmother, not to mention daddy, and their good works. Or from a less pleasant perspective have centuries worth of experience at politics.

Doesn't anyone else think that might spell trouble, if a new High Ridge or some other bastard takes the throne?

Roger will have about 250 years of apprenticeship for the job, with Rivka to back him up. And Elizabeth will have all that time to prepare him, her, and a reliable staff for them. They'll be okay.

It is an unusual stage of history, with prolong only around for a century or less and lifespans jacked from 80-100 to well over 200 to 300+. I wonder about the institutions to care for the ailing elderly, who are going to disappear shortly for a couple centuries then show back up.

JeffEngel wrote:I wonder about the institutions to care for the ailing elderly, who are going to disappear shortly for a couple centuries then show back up.

Yeah, I've wondered about this too. It's probably not going to go well.

kzt wrote:

JeffEngel wrote:I wonder about the institutions to care for the ailing elderly, who are going to disappear shortly for a couple centuries then show back up.

Yeah, I've wondered about this too. It's probably not going to go well.

Not really, Look at Emily Alexander-Harrington if she didn't have the money to hire her own personal medical staff she would be in a extended care facility.

saber964 wrote:Not really, Look at Emily Alexander-Harrington if she didn't have the money to hire her own personal medical staff she would be in a extended care facility.

Sure. How many of these do you think exist given homorverse medicine and general wealth?

In 200 years, when elderly patients are less common than kids with epiglottitis are today (prevalence of 0.02 per 100,000), how many residency slots in geratology do you think there will be?

Spitfire80 wrote:Okay, this is all rough around the edges, cause i'm not quite sure at the actual ages involved so bear with me.

If Elisabeth, drops dead on her 301st birthday, presuming she makes it thanks to prolong. (I think that was the estimated age for a prolong recipient) She will have had, 200+ years to make her mark on Manticore.

Junior, i mean roger, will then have maybe 80 years to do the same? Now he married in his twenties, and people being people, they'll be looking for a babybump, as soon as he and Rivka get back from their honeymoon.

Provided they do indeed have a junior junior, that early he/she will have 20/30 years to do his/her thing. (which was still an option, seeing how childrearing was something most people will still do early in life)

With people around who might still remember grandmother, not to mention daddy, and their good works. Or from a less pleasant perspective have centuries worth of experience at politics.

Doesn't anyone else think that might spell trouble, if a new High Ridge or some other bastard takes the throne?

at least in the decreasing reign times I wouldn't be surprised if Elizabeth and Roger plan to start a tradition of stepping down after a century or so on the throne. That would (hopefully) allow for an orderly transition and tend to stabilize the ages of assertion and length of rule. So you don't end up growing stake as the heir for 90% of your adult life.

But only training and practice are likely to help going up against political operators who've been perfecting their skills for centuries.

Jonathan_S wrote:at least in the decreasing reign times I wouldn't be surprised if Elizabeth and Roger plan to start a tradition of stepping down after a century or so on the throne. That would (hopefully) allow for an orderly transition and tend to stabilize the ages of assertion and length of rule. So you don't end up growing stake as the heir for 90% of your adult life.

But only training and practice are likely to help going up against political operators who've been perfecting their skills for centuries.

Quite possible. Manticore had that unfortunate thing of having its rulers assassinated, or attempted. And the only reason they had kids so early was to have an Heir and continuity.

By stepping down early, not only does the Heir actually get to feel like they "did something good", they'd still have Mother and Father around as a sounding board. Similar, although reversed, to how Heir Roger would chat with his mother before she finally shuffled off from old age.

And it blends well with the Winton tradition of sending its scions into public service. Spend a century or so in public service, and learning, then become the ruler for a century or so, and step down to act as a familial advisor while "in the pasture".

Assuming that the "10,000 hour rule" exists in the Honorverse (ie, the time it takes to full master something), then an heir who is 100 years old and has spent roughly 80 of those years preparing (in part) to become the ruler would definitely put them well over that mark.

Experience in politics helps: But, is there much of a difference between someone with 10 years as a Senator compared to someone with 30 years? Not really... I would think the same would be true for Manticore. The first 10-15 years in politics the person learns a hell of a lot, and after that they level out in their abilities and the only factor that defines them is their seniority.

Basically, a lord who has spent 200 years in the SEM House of Lords probably has very little additional political skills as a lord with 20 years experience. Now, the lord with 200 years will have a lot more relationships, debts, and friendships to call upon - but not really any more experience as the law of diminishing returns sets in.

Erls wrote:Assuming that the "10,000 hour rule" exists in the Honorverse (ie, the time it takes to full master something), then an heir who is 100 years old and has spent roughly 80 of those years preparing (in part) to become the ruler would definitely put them well over that mark.

Experience in politics helps: But, is there much of a difference between someone with 10 years as a Senator compared to someone with 30 years? Not really... I would think the same would be true for Manticore. The first 10-15 years in politics the person learns a hell of a lot, and after that they level out in their abilities and the only factor that defines them is their seniority.

Basically, a lord who has spent 200 years in the SEM House of Lords probably has very little additional political skills as a lord with 20 years experience. Now, the lord with 200 years will have a lot more relationships, debts, and friendships to call upon - but not really any more experience as the law of diminishing returns sets in.

Reminds me of the old adage of someone with thirty years experience, it's actually 5 years of experience that is 25 years old

Check out the British Monarchy. Our current heir apparent has been sitting in that role since 1952, continuing to build a record. Quiet discussions about the slowly looming change of succession has been going around for at least a decade, although if her mother is any meterstick, Elizabeth II may be around for quite a while yet.

Opinions on how to handle it vary from sticking with the succession law, skipping a generation(so King William would start young) or becoming a republic.

Back to Manticore, there's a great deal of constitutional changes coming. Talbott and Silesia do not have an aristocratic tradition and Talbott will have equal voting rights within 75 years. I suspect that's why the Star Empire was established as a layer above the OSK - so the OSK could still pull out way down the line if one or several of the Empire's quadrants ends up in control of the Imperial Parliament.