Defense of Lynx, the system

If Lynx is closer to the Core than the rest of Talbott, then that'd put the Terminus approximately the same, which means the Terminus is closer to the League than any of the Talbott systems.


But I'm not sure Lynx would get multiple waller squadrons as a permanent guard. Before Elizabeth managed to get Basilisk rammed through properly, and with Janacek they'd downgraded that portion of OSK down to not even 1 full squadron of cruisers, and actively down to 1 before OBS.

By the time of Operation Icarus, Basilisk only had

Task Force Basilisk, CO Vice Admiral Silas Markham
task group - orbital picket, CO Vice Admiral Silas Markham
a battle squadron (SD)
a battlecruiser element
task group - terminus picket, CO Rear Admiral Hanaby
a battle squadron (DN)
a battlecruiser squadron


By contrast, 6 years later, Grendlesbane (which is most definitely not OSK) had

Task Force Grendelsbane - Admiral Allen Higgins commanding:
wall of battle:
a battle squadron (SD(P))
two battle squadrons (SD)
a CLAC squadron
screen:
a battlecruiser element
a cruiser element

Excluding the differences in technology, a non-OSK system had three times as many SDs, parity in DN hulls, and the screens were about the same.


Basilisk had to share its full-time defences with its Terminus, which was in the same system. Lynx doesn't directly have the Terminus, so if they got more than an SD squadron, screen and some battlecruisers, they'd be lucky.

Somtaaw wrote:If Lynx is closer to the Core than the rest of Talbott, then that'd put the Terminus approximately the same, which means the Terminus is closer to the League than any of the Talbott systems....

Excluding the differences in technology, a non-OSK system had three times as many SDs, parity in DN hulls, and the screens were about the same.


Basilisk had to share its full-time defences with its Terminus, which was in the same system. Lynx doesn't directly have the Terminus, so if they got more than an SD squadron, screen and some battlecruisers, they'd be lucky.

It's a different time and different circumstances. Basilisk was well out of range for conventional Peep operations; Grendelsbane was a prime and available target. Now, Lynx has to be defended with an eye toward what the League may do. It wouldn't be a target for industrial or strategic value; it would be high on a list determined by proximity or political value, and maybe one eyeing relatively weakly defended systems, if the RMN is defending it based on (lack of) industrial or strategic value, or with an awareness of how easily it could be relieved through the Junction or by the terminus picket.

If the SLN wants to try to hit any Manticoran system again, and is afraid of trying for Spindle or Manticore again, Lynx may be a good target given the (probable) lack of pronounced defenses, proximity, and political value. Mind you, I doubt the SLN does want to try such a thing.

JeffEngel wrote:
If the SLN wants to try to hit any Manticoran system again, and is afraid of trying for Spindle or Manticore again, Lynx may be a good target given the (probable) lack of pronounced defenses, proximity, and political value. Mind you, I doubt the SLN does want to try such a thing.

When Manticore goes to war, the one system guaranteed to be trashed is - Zanzibar!

Grabthar's Hammer wrote:

JeffEngel wrote:
If the SLN wants to try to hit any Manticoran system again, and is afraid of trying for Spindle or Manticore again, Lynx may be a good target given the (probable) lack of pronounced defenses, proximity, and political value. Mind you, I doubt the SLN does want to try such a thing.

When Manticore goes to war, the one system guaranteed to be trashed is - Zanzibar!

Zanzibar isn't part of Manticore, and isn't part of the Grand Alliance, so far as I know, Zanzibar, and most of the rest of the old Manticoran Alliance members, intends to remain neutral regarding the League, though probably somewhat in Manticore's favor by default.
That said ... Zanzibar (and it's fellow old Manticoran Alliance members) might be targets if someone figures out that they had Manticoran tech transfers and thinks they could manage to get their hands on something useful. This probably means MAlign agency, rather than the League.

Hutch wrote:

Relax wrote:There is no heavy picket force on the Lynx terminus. They disappeared when the forts came online. Now they probably still have ??? ships, but I would not put it past DD/DB. The entire SLN if they attacked those forts would pretty much vanish.

Concur completely.

Lynx the planet

1) Has no critical infrastructure.
2) No peer with long range missiles
3) From 2), would assume no more than LAC's/PODs with a fort or two being built for fire control.

I tend to disagree, since Lynx is a Full member of the Star Kingdom of Manticore, and one thing we know for certain is that Queen Elizabeth II takes her duty to defend her citizens in the SK very seriously.

So it's at least a BC Squadron and more likely a SD(p) Squadron, not because Lynx is a prime target, but because this is part of the Star Kingdom of Manticore, and the SKM defends itself.

Several questions?
What time period is this force suppoesd to be there?

Post Battle of Manticore and Pre-Oyster Bay, I could buy with a bit of a stretch that there is a podnought squadron at the actual Lynx system as the Python Lump is out of the yards, the Haven threat is gone, and the SD-Ps that launched in the month or two after Battle of Manticore would have three or four months of shakedown, so a forward deployment to a quiet area where the SD-ps could complete advance training while providing a heavy covering force against weak opposition could make sense.

Post-Oyster Bay, it is more believable that an SD-P squadron would be at Lynx (I think we would have heard a comment from either Michelle or Augustus, but I'm okay with not hearing that comment) as Lynx is an exposed forward outpost along a primary threat axis. However the same system can be forted up with ten thousand capacitor MDM pods, while the Apollo capable wallers are deployed to either the Home System or are concentrated for offensive actions.

Pre-Battle of Manticore, no way in hell. The Star Kingdom was dangerously short of podnoughts, and they're not throwing a significant and potentially critical component of their wall of battle to an outpost that is 1,000 light years in H-space away from the front. The heaviest/most advanced force I could see there would be a squadron of MDM tube Gryphons. But I discount that as other posters have pointed out, a Batron on the Lynx side of ther Terminus defeats the Monica plan fairly easily.

The Lynx System didn't get to be the capitol of Talbott Quadrant because it is relatively remote from the "more or less" center of quadrant political and then existing economic hub of the quadrant. Spindle is where the Convention was set up and where the Baroness Madusa was stationed to work with the Convention and all of the politics, and it is "at the center" of the Cluster. Astro-cartography and political focus point.

Lynx, however, (per the Honerverse Wicki at least) is the closest inhabited star system to the Lynx terminus of the Junction and has a habitable planet. While Spindle was chosen for the Quadrant capital, the habiable planet and the star system would make Lynx the closest place for resource mining and probably R&R to support the infrastructure and military station that is the Lynx Terminus. Ok, 4 light years is close only because of hyperdrive, you are not going to just take an impeller only ship there for a day-trip.

It is going to need some protection force but not the same level as Spindle. Depending on what is available in-system, it may or may not be the closest major resource (for construction and manufacturing materials) to Lynx terminus. Depending on what the habital planet has, it may or may not be a destination for RMN ships or Lynx Terminus personel for off-duty/ leave. I suspect that RMN ships are mostly going to move through the Terminus to Spindle (where Talbott Station is HQd) or to specific duty stations on orders.

We also really don't have much in the way of information on Matapan Station. Just not (yet if ever) germaine to the story line.

Brigade XO wrote:The Lynx System didn't get to be the capitol of Talbott Quadrant because it is relatively remote from the "more or less" center of quadrant political and then existing economic hub of the quadrant. Spindle is where the Convention was set up and where the Baroness Madusa was stationed to work with the Convention and all of the politics, and it is "at the center" of the Cluster. Astro-cartography and political focus point.

Lynx, however, (per the Honerverse Wicki at least) is the closest inhabited star system to the Lynx terminus of the Junction and has a habitable planet. While Spindle was chosen for the Quadrant capital, the habiable planet and the star system would make Lynx the closest place for resource mining and probably R&R to support the infrastructure and military station that is the Lynx Terminus. Ok, 4 light years is close only because of hyperdrive, you are not going to just take an impeller only ship there for a day-trip.

Spindle was chosen as the capital of the Talbott Quadrant because it was already the headquarters for the economic association of the Talbott Cluster. Lynx was not a member of the Talbott Cluster, and never had been. And at the time that Spindle was being chosen as the capital of the Talbott Quadrant, Lynx had already been a full member of the Star Kingdom of Manticore for years. Lynx was a member of the Star Kingdom before the Talbott Cluster even got around to asking.

JeffEngel wrote:

Hutch wrote:
And I would note that the SEM has sent 40 capital ships (20 SD(P) and 20 CLAC's, along with at least 2 squadrons of BC's and assorted smaller ships (RFC got a little confusing on numbers there at the end of SoF) to defend the Sector--and the several squadrons of LAC's in each system. (Nobody counted on Mike Henke taking them to Meyers and then Mesa!!) So hardly two-tier defense--Lynx, being closest to the wormhole and a SKM member would be expected to be defended. I simply argue that it would be more defended than others seem to think.

Not worth a major argument, just a difference of opinion.

.....

....

(of course, I'm right..

Many of the Talbott Quadrant systems are considerably more distant from League bases than Lynx, and any of them are more accessible than any other Manticoran world. (This applies direct from the Core, even with Madras whacked by 10th Fleet.) So by that measure, it may call for an immediate defensive force about as powerful as those in other League-ward Talbott Quadrant (or "trans-Lynx-Terminus" systems, for Talbott plus Lynx). In fact, looking at a map, Lynx is the closest to the Core, with Split a close second.

While Lynx can call for relief from the terminus or Manticore, that won't help keep it from being captured and delivering a Solarian PR victory, even if they cannot hold it. A mobile force in Lynx, in addition to defending it, is something that would keep the Lynx Terminus from being kept, or left in peace, by the League, in the wildly hypothetical case of it somehow being taken.

It's certainly not a critical system, and the people there don't inherently "deserve" more protection than anyone else. I doubt their political pull in Parliament is yet so strong as to make for wild swings in military policy. But as has been said, their status as part of the Old Star Kingdom may make a difference in their value as a target, as may proximity to the terminus and to the League Core (by comparison with any other Manticoran system).

A couple things no one has mentioned:
a) we have no idea how typical of Verge systems Lynx is, but there was mention in SoSag that construction in the system was ongoing. We really don't have any real idea what their industry/education level is, or what they are capable of, except for a comment from RFC in the pearls that it isn't sufficiently advanced to contribute materially to Manticore's military reconstruction efforts.

b) Lynx's annexation was approved by the HR government--to counter Centrist influentce on the San Martinos in the Commons. The reason they HR gov't approved the annexation so swiftly was political, and domestic --Lynx and San Martin have about the same population, and would end up seating the same number of bodies in the Commons. And it could also dilute San Martino's seating of new members (loyal to the Centrist party) in the Lords. Related to the vote-buying concept was the Building the Peace campaign, and the delay of the general election (which didn't actually take place until after HR was gone).

Based on the notion of vote-buying, I expect a light task group was detached from Home Fleet, with some LAC bases installed, but not with enough for force projection, just their for "presence" and to deter pirates. After all, they didn't expect the League to care. . . .


Rob

SWM wrote:

Brigade XO wrote:The Lynx System didn't get to be the capitol of Talbott Quadrant because it is relatively remote from the "more or less" center of quadrant political and then existing economic hub of the quadrant. Spindle is where the Convention was set up and where the Baroness Madusa was stationed to work with the Convention and all of the politics, and it is "at the center" of the Cluster. Astro-cartography and political focus point.

Lynx, however, (per the Honerverse Wicki at least) is the closest inhabited star system to the Lynx terminus of the Junction and has a habitable planet. While Spindle was chosen for the Quadrant capital, the habiable planet and the star system would make Lynx the closest place for resource mining and probably R&R to support the infrastructure and military station that is the Lynx Terminus. Ok, 4 light years is close only because of hyperdrive, you are not going to just take an impeller only ship there for a day-trip.

Spindle was chosen as the capital of the Talbott Quadrant because it was already the headquarters for the economic association of the Talbott Cluster. Lynx was not a member of the Talbott Cluster, and never had been. And at the time that Spindle was being chosen as the capital of the Talbott Quadrant, Lynx had already been a full member of the Star Kingdom of Manticore for years. Lynx was a member of the Star Kingdom before the Talbott Cluster even got around to asking.

Lynx was a 'member' of the Tallbot Cluster it just happened to be the closest system to the termanus. According to RFC Lynx basically sent back the request for annexation with the HMS Harvest Joy when she returned to Manticore. Also Lynx only beat out the rest of the cluster as a member of the SEM by a few months, as a member of the OSKM.

saber964 wrote:
Lynx was a 'member' of the Tallbot Cluster it just happened to be the closest system to the termanus. According to RFC Lynx basically sent back the request for annexation with the HMS Harvest Joy when she returned to Manticore. Also Lynx only beat out the rest of the cluster as a member of the SEM by a few months, as a member of the OSKM.

Actually, it was a bit longer than that - the entire book of Shadows of Saganami took place while the TQ was arguing about the terms of which they wanted to request annexation. The agreement and publicite to request to join the SKM did happen a just a few months after the Lynx Terminus (at which time the SKM said "cool" and sent Baroness Medusa and Adm Kumulo to shepard things along), but as of the end of SoSag, they still hadn't joined. The Battle of Monica brought the debates to a screeching halt, and they joined soon after.

So While Lynx joined in 1917 or 1918, the rest of the cluster didn't until late 1920/ early 1921. (sorry, don't remember exact dates)