Training Standards (Limited to the Honorverse)

kzt wrote:

Somtaaw wrote:And skinsuits are "unpowered" essentially, they don't assist the users movements at all. So any power is strictly for their HUDs, radios, and helmet lamps. Those are low-power draw, and unless pulse rifles keep their batteries in the magazines, the Stilty Defense had Captain Ramirez "use" upwards of 4 magazines and didn't once need to change out the power supply that pulser pistols/rifles seem to require.

No, they have a low grade power assist. And things like maintaining a breathable atmosphere in the suit will take power. Fans, computers, valves, etc.

Ah yes, but a low grade power assist that's little more than enough to allow movement even in vaccuum conditions. It's not the normal manner of powered, that increases a users strength X-fold and allows high leaps, etc.

Their air is also maintained in vacuoles and such, as explained when Paul Tankersley revealed the 'cat skinsuit, and it gave us an indepth explaination on skinnies. Probable endurance on those is one day for navy skinsuits, potentially two for Marines. Damage Control, and potential combat requiring more air than a naval rating doing circuit repairs.

I also didn't think skinsuits had computers? Or that'd be linked in with the HUD generation, which I'd accounted for. Any serious computing, they seem to use a pad for, and then download subsets to their HUDs, like the space station Hearns assaulted in the recent books, whatever system it was again.

You have a computer looking at the oxygen sensors and releasing more O2 to ensure that you maintain a breathable atmosphere. If you don't have fans you can't move the exhaled air to the filters, so you'll smother in short order. So yeah, it needs some minimal power.

The suit "muscles" that allow you to move the suit effectively presumably also need power, and likely a lot more if you are working or moving much.

kzt wrote:You have a computer looking at the oxygen sensors and releasing more O2 to ensure that you maintain a breathable atmosphere. If you don't have fans you can't move the exhaled air to the filters, so you'll smother in short order. So yeah, it needs some minimal power.

The suit "muscles" that allow you to move the suit effectively presumably also need power, and likely a lot more if you are working or moving much.

They also had to have a computer/channel connected radio of some sort implying more power than just a single channel device, [though that's admittedly less than the O2 systems would require]. Recall that in Honor Among Enemies, Ginger Lewis was contacting folks by the "skin suit" coms after HMAMC Wayfarer was very nearly blown to bits. Thereafter different folks in damage control could still communicate with each other in groups, even though I don't remember any textev about comms being re-established ship wide.

SharkHunter wrote:They also had to have a computer/channel connected radio of some sort implying more power than just a single channel device, [though that's admittedly less than the O2 systems would require]. Recall that in Honor Among Enemies, Ginger Lewis was contacting folks by the "skin suit" coms after HMAMC Wayfarer was very nearly blown to bits. Thereafter different folks in damage control could still communicate with each other in groups, even though I don't remember any textev about comms being re-established ship wide.

And that same book makes the point that skinsuits for prisoners in the brig don't have comms (unlike normal suits)


Wandering further down this tangent --
Guess every (RMN) warship carries a skinsuit repair shop capable of manifacturing or resizing 'suits. Otherwise I'm not sure how you could have properly fitting brig suits for any / every prisoner. (Alternatively I guess the brig suit could be their normal issue skinsuit that the repair shop had modified to remove comms and check for hidden toys)

But we know the at least Peep warships don't seem to have much 'suit manifacture / customization capability; since the Elysian Space Navy wasn't able to make / fit suits for all the (reduced) crews manning their captured warships.

Jonathan_S wrote:

SharkHunter wrote:They also had to have a computer/channel connected radio of some sort implying more power than just a single channel device, [though that's admittedly less than the O2 systems would require]. Recall that in Honor Among Enemies, Ginger Lewis was contacting folks by the "skin suit" coms after HMAMC Wayfarer was very nearly blown to bits. Thereafter different folks in damage control could still communicate with each other in groups, even though I don't remember any textev about comms being re-established ship wide.

And that same book makes the point that skinsuits for prisoners in the brig don't have comms (unlike normal suits)


Wandering further down this tangent --
Guess every (RMN) warship carries a skinsuit repair shop capable of manifacturing or resizing 'suits. Otherwise I'm not sure how you could have properly fitting brig suits for any / every prisoner. (Alternatively I guess the brig suit could be their normal issue skinsuit that the repair shop had modified to remove comms and check for hidden toys)

But we know the at least Peep warships don't seem to have much 'suit manifacture / customization capability; since the Elysian Space Navy wasn't able to make / fit suits for all the (reduced) crews manning their captured warships.

Brig skinnies are similar to rescue suits, or passenger liner suits I believe. A one-size-fits-all. That was noted in In Enemy Hands, right before McKeon took his ship into potential combat, when they were scouting Adler. Honor 'should' have brought her suit with her, and McKeon was desperate for her to get into the rescue suit (basically a big plastic bag to be dragged around in) and passenger liner suits were described as 'similar to hardsuits' which could be the same as the ones engineers use at Manticoran shipyards.

Warships can do 'light' modifications, to account for small, gradual changes in body size and layout. Put on a few extra pounds while on x ship, get your suit altered to account for that, etc. But full up changes on suits took a full manufacturing plant, something that only a base or planet would have, also noted in the end of Echoes.

Somtaaw wrote:

Jonathan_S wrote:And that same book makes the point that skinsuits for prisoners in the brig don't have comms (unlike normal suits)


Wandering further down this tangent --
Guess every (RMN) warship carries a skinsuit repair shop capable of manifacturing or resizing 'suits. Otherwise I'm not sure how you could have properly fitting brig suits for any / every prisoner. (Alternatively I guess the brig suit could be their normal issue skinsuit that the repair shop had modified to remove comms and check for hidden toys)

But we know the at least Peep warships don't seem to have much 'suit manifacture / customization capability; since the Elysian Space Navy wasn't able to make / fit suits for all the (reduced) crews manning their captured warships.

Brig skinnies are similar to rescue suits, or passenger liner suits I believe. A one-size-fits-all. That was noted in In Enemy Hands, right before McKeon took his ship into potential combat, when they were scouting Adler. Honor 'should' have brought her suit with her, and McKeon was desperate for her to get into the rescue suit (basically a big plastic bag to be dragged around in) and passenger liner suits were described as 'similar to hardsuits' which could be the same as the ones engineers use at Manticoran shipyards.

Warships can do 'light' modifications, to account for small, gradual changes in body size and layout. Put on a few extra pounds while on x ship, get your suit altered to account for that, etc. But full up changes on suits took a full manufacturing plant, something that only a base or planet would have, also noted in the end of Echoes.

Guess they could be rescue suits. But then it's odd that HaE described them as "skinsuits"; not "rescue suits" (or passenger liner style suits).


Actually the fact that Prince Adrian didn't have even a brig skinsuit to give to Honor (a point I'd overlooked) makes me think that the suits Steilman and his crew were issued were most likely their own skinsuits; just suitably disabled/locked-down.

Jonathan_S wrote:

Somtaaw wrote:
Brig skinnies are similar to rescue suits, or passenger liner suits I believe. A one-size-fits-all. That was noted in In Enemy Hands, right before McKeon took his ship into potential combat, when they were scouting Adler. Honor 'should' have brought her suit with her, and McKeon was desperate for her to get into the rescue suit (basically a big plastic bag to be dragged around in) and passenger liner suits were described as 'similar to hardsuits' which could be the same as the ones engineers use at Manticoran shipyards.

Warships can do 'light' modifications, to account for small, gradual changes in body size and layout. Put on a few extra pounds while on x ship, get your suit altered to account for that, etc. But full up changes on suits took a full manufacturing plant, something that only a base or planet would have, also noted in the end of Echoes.

Guess they could be rescue suits. But then it's odd that HaE described them as "skinsuits"; not "rescue suits" (or passenger liner style suits).


Actually the fact that Prince Adrian didn't have even a brig skinsuit to give to Honor (a point I'd overlooked) makes me think that the suits Steilman and his crew were issued were most likely their own skinsuits; just suitably disabled/locked-down.

Or they just didn't even consider that. Or that there was only so many brig skinnies, and Honor being Honor, would have ordered the technicians who also came to the Prince Adrian to wear the brig skinnies. Being a leader and all that "if all my people cant have suits, neither will I" attitude.

Or hell, maybe David just plain forgot he'd invented brig skinnies, and so the Prince Adrian just didn't have any? After all, they've been used exactly once, and it was only mentioned in a total of about what, two paragraphs? One in reference to why they werent' evacuated to the Atlas liner (despite screaming, due to no radio), and the second was when Wayfarer took a laser head right through the brig, killing them instantly. Two paragraphs out of nearly 20 or so Honorverse books, I think we could forgive him for forgetting

Somtaaw wrote:Or hell, maybe David just plain forgot he'd invented brig skinnies, and so the Prince Adrian just didn't have any? After all, they've been used exactly once, and it was only mentioned in a total of about what, two paragraphs? One in reference to why they werent' evacuated to the Atlas liner (despite screaming, due to no radio), and the second was when Wayfarer took a laser head right through the brig, killing them instantly. Two paragraphs out of nearly 20 or so Honorverse books, I think we could forgive him for forgetting

It's at least possible that Wayfarer had some civilian emergency skinsuits that they forgot to sweep out of there with the conversion, and that's what they had for the brig occupants. And Prince Adrian was old - some emergency measures on it (like provision of such skinsuits) may have been out of date. Or the suits may have been worn out, lost, or sold on the black market by guys like Steilman before they were needed there. (Heck - Steilman had had a few tours, and only died a year or so before Prince Adrian was captured. He may have made off with the suits himself!)

I see a lot of bickering about gear, powered or otherwise aiding the human military individuals. Which is true, i admit.

But a prudent military starts out with the basic human specimen, male or female. And a required fitness and strenght level.

And if you then go back to the basics, despite geniefied men and women, evolution kicks in. And for a military, that is all about equal representation, to the point they don't even think about it anymore. (it's as normal to join the military as it is to become a nurse) That cause a problem

If you were to hold those baseline males and females to the same standards, i imagine a lot of the women would wash out. So i imagine, that they do have different standards. I think these are a lot more based in science and technology, rahter than them setting an arbitrary number, based on those that went before you.

And once that level is reached, THEN, they start you on the road to tech assisted military equality, give you stuff to aid you with lifting crap.

Just like i imagine they want you to be able to shoot by iron sights alone, before they grant you aim assist.

Tech standards are important, they allow for equalization in capabilities to levels beyond what an unequipped person could. However training standards start with H. Sapiens modern mark whatever and the accompanying problems.

Women in military in modern times is not new. WW1 the Russians fielded a women's battalion after the Revolution. WW2 the Soviets created the Women's Sniper Corps. In US military history there are examples of women stepping in to fight from before there was a USA. The question is not that women can fight or not. (flying crockery and its accuracy are arguments in favor as most men can testify) The question is can the men be trained to let them fight?

During the Israeli war for independence the Haganah had coed units in combat, the female casualties were lower than average but they were withdrawn from action as the male casualties in the same units were much higher, as the men tried to protect the women.

I would imagine this would be culturally accommodated by SKM and PRH, but imagine the difficulty in accommodating this among Graysons. It might be a difficult Test or flat out impossible. I think worth a story or two.