Defense of Lynx, the system

I think the RMN would take a good look at the system and the junction as a unit and detail units correspondingly.

Thus, I see a squadron or two of SD(P)s along with CLACs and escorts stationed at the terminus until the forts come online. Once the forts are fully online, I could see at most 1 squadron of SD(P)s along with CLACs and escorts.

At Lynx the planet, I could see the RMN going with a large LAC contingent as well as at least 1 squadron of Sag-C cruisers, and likely an older pre-Pod SD for overall command. Add to that a couple Missile Freighters and plenty of system pods and the planet itself could defend itself against any non-GA threat for quite some time and inflict a ton of damage, with word of the attack quickly reaching both the wormhole terminus (rapid response) and Manticore itself (heavy response) if the situation warranted it.

Keep in mind that the Manticore Binary has enough SDF pods that all they'd need to do is take maybe 1% in for rehab/recharge or whatever they do to keep them operationally ready, and send them to Lynx to give the system plenty of MDM missiles scattered around the system, plus a maybe two SD(P)'s and a few cruisers with a lot of mobile control links.

There's not a navy in the galaxy that is going to dedicate enough ships to get through that level of defenses; plus you've got the Lynx terminus force and Home Fleet not far away, for a relatively "low priority" star system compared to the terminus itself.

Erls wrote:I think the RMN would take a good look at the system and the junction as a unit and detail units correspondingly.

Thus, I see a squadron or two of SD(P)s along with CLACs and escorts stationed at the terminus until the forts come online. Once the forts are fully online, I could see at most 1 squadron of SD(P)s along with CLACs and escorts.

At Lynx the planet, I could see the RMN going with a large LAC contingent as well as at least 1 squadron of Sag-C cruisers, and likely an older pre-Pod SD for overall command. Add to that a couple Missile Freighters and plenty of system pods and the planet itself could defend itself against any non-GA threat for quite some time and inflict a ton of damage, with word of the attack quickly reaching both the wormhole terminus (rapid response) and Manticore itself (heavy response) if the situation warranted it.

We hve text-ev that until the Monica situation, there was a CL/DD picket at the Terminus. After the Monica Situation there were 2 Squadrons of SD(p)s (Older Medusas without Keyhole) under Admiral Blaine w CLAC and BC squadrons attached, until the terminus Forts came online. This was mentioned in SoS and in David's "Reinforcements for BoMa" post. According to SftS, That force in now part of 10th fleet.

SharkHunter wrote:Keep in mind that the Manticore Binary has enough SDF pods that all they'd need to do is take maybe 1% in for rehab/recharge or whatever they do to keep them operationally ready, and send them to Lynx to give the system plenty of MDM missiles scattered around the system, plus a maybe two SD(P)'s and a few cruisers with a lot of mobile control links.

Oh, I concur that there will be plenty of pods for defense. I simply think that there will be more ships than most are saying.

There's not a navy in the galaxy that is going to dedicate enough ships to get through that level of defenses; plus you've got the Lynx terminus force and Home Fleet not far away, for a relatively "low priority" star system compared to the terminus itself.

I have to take issue with you there; Lynx is not the Talbott Cluster or Silesia or Marsh; they are a Full-Fledged member of the Star Kingdom of Manticore, with representatives in Parliment, Nobles being nominated and en-nobled to serve in the House of Lords, and under the rule of Queen Elizabeth II, not the Empress that lives in the same body.

And that is why, given the ships we've seen at Trevor's Star and Manticore (the other (human) members of the SKM), I think the ships based there will not be nominal. Queen Elizabeth takes the safety of her subjects very seriously.

IMHO as always. YMMV

Hutch wrote:
I have to take issue with you there; Lynx is not the Talbott Cluster or Silesia or Marsh; they are a Full-Fledged member of the Star Kingdom of Manticore, with representatives in Parliment, Nobles being nominated and en-nobled to serve in the House of Lords, and under the rule of Queen Elizabeth II, not the Empress that lives in the same body.

And that is why, given the ships we've seen at Trevor's Star and Manticore (the other (human) members of the SKM), I think the ships based there will not be nominal. Queen Elizabeth takes the safety of her subjects very seriously.

IMHO as always. YMMV

Why would the citizens of Lynx be any more important than the citizens of Split? Or Rembrandt? Or even Nuncio? If you say Lynx is more important because it's a member of the Star Kingdom, rather than the Star Empire, you create an implicitly two-tier citizenship which goes against everything I've seen in the books. The RMN has a lot of systems to cover now; it'll have to prioritise, and Lynx can't be high on the list.

The Manticore Binary System remains critical for two reasons:

1) It's still, even after Oyster Bay, the industrial, commercial and financial heart of the Empire, not to mention being the site of the Admiralty and Saganami Island.

2) Lose Manticore, and you pretty much definitely lose the Junction, isolating the Old Kingdom, Talbot and Silesia from each other - end of Empire.

Trevor's Star had to be massively defended in the past, not to protect the citizens of San Martin, but to prevent Haven taking back the wormhole terminus - a consideration that has diminished significantly since the formation of the GA, so I wouldn't expect to see a new Third Fleet garrisoning the system the way Kuzak's fleet did. Ditto for system MQ-L-1792-46A, site of the Lynx terminus. The Lynx system is, by comparison, expendable, at least on a temporary basis. Better to lose Lynx, concentrate reserves and liberate the system again than tether a significant force to a minor system and weaken more important nodes of the Empire.

Dafmeister wrote: The Lynx system is, by comparison, expendable, at least on a temporary basis. Better to lose Lynx, concentrate reserves and liberate the system again than tether a significant force to a minor system and weaken more important nodes of the Empire.

And one thing to say about Lynx: with the exception of the Imperial systems with a junction terminus actually in them, it is _the_ most easily accessible one for recapture. I doubt any Quadrant-proper systems are within four light years of one another. Silesian ones probably are in some cases, but there are enough of them that few of them are likely to have really substantial relief forces available for their immediate neighbors, and Lynx's immediate neighbor, practically speaking, is Manticore-A.

Dafmeister wrote:

Hutch wrote:
I have to take issue with you there; Lynx is not the Talbott Cluster or Silesia or Marsh; they are a Full-Fledged member of the Star Kingdom of Manticore, with representatives in Parliment, Nobles being nominated and en-nobled to serve in the House of Lords, and under the rule of Queen Elizabeth II, not the Empress that lives in the same body.

And that is why, given the ships we've seen at Trevor's Star and Manticore (the other (human) members of the SKM), I think the ships based there will not be nominal. Queen Elizabeth takes the safety of her subjects very seriously.

IMHO as always. YMMV

Why would the citizens of Lynx be any more important than the citizens of Split? Or Rembrandt? Or even Nuncio? If you say Lynx is more important because it's a member of the Star Kingdom, rather than the Star Empire, you create an implicitly two-tier citizenship which goes against everything I've seen in the books. The RMN has a lot of systems to cover now; it'll have to prioritise, and Lynx can't be high on the list.

This. The two-tier thing is dangerous to fiddle with(as any observer of current events at Westminister can tell you).

And it is not the Old Star Kingdom's parliament which controls the RMN. It is the Imperial Parliament, containing representatives from all over the Empire in addition to the OSK bloc.

Dafmeister wrote:

Hutch wrote:
I have to take issue with you there; Lynx is not the Talbott Cluster or Silesia or Marsh; they are a Full-Fledged member of the Star Kingdom of Manticore, with representatives in Parliment, Nobles being nominated and en-nobled to serve in the House of Lords, and under the rule of Queen Elizabeth II, not the Empress that lives in the same body.

And that is why, given the ships we've seen at Trevor's Star and Manticore (the other (human) members of the SKM), I think the ships based there will not be nominal. Queen Elizabeth takes the safety of her subjects very seriously.

IMHO as always. YMMV

Why would the citizens of Lynx be any more important than the citizens of Split? Or Rembrandt? Or even Nuncio? If you say Lynx is more important because it's a member of the Star Kingdom, rather than the Star Empire, you create an implicitly two-tier citizenship which goes against everything I've seen in the books. The RMN has a lot of systems to cover now; it'll have to prioritise, and Lynx can't be high on the list.

The Manticore Binary System remains critical for two reasons:

1) It's still, even after Oyster Bay, the industrial, commercial and financial heart of the Empire, not to mention being the site of the Admiralty and Saganami Island.

2) Lose Manticore, and you pretty much definitely lose the Junction, isolating the Old Kingdom, Talbot and Silesia from each other - end of Empire.

Trevor's Star had to be massively defended in the past, not to protect the citizens of San Martin, but to prevent Haven taking back the wormhole terminus - a consideration that has diminished significantly since the formation of the GA, so I wouldn't expect to see a new Third Fleet garrisoning the system the way Kuzak's fleet did. Ditto for system MQ-L-1792-46A, site of the Lynx terminus. The Lynx system is, by comparison, expendable, at least on a temporary basis. Better to lose Lynx, concentrate reserves and liberate the system again than tether a significant force to a minor system and weaken more important nodes of the Empire.

Lynx, as a member of the Star Kingdom, has more direct political power/influence than a randomly selected individual system in the Quadrant.
There's also more PR value in successfully hitting "part of the Star Kingdom".

It's all in how you frame it.


It's not a multiple tiers of citizenship thing, but Lynx is in a different political category than the Quadrant. And that difference needs to be taken into account - the enemy certainly will (or try to).

Lynx is one of the five human-inhabited worlds of the Star Kingdom (Medusa doesn't count). It is certainly the least valuable, and likely the least defended system of the Star Kingdom proper


Also, I think what is a "significant force" protecting Lynx is a highly relative term. I would say that Lynx could have as much as a couple battlecruiser squadrons, and maybe a division or two of (legacy) SD/DNs, plus the appropriate supporting cruiser and destroyer squadrons, on top of (planned) LAC bases and fields of system defense pods. That would be a locally significant force, and more than sufficient to ensure Lynx's security against any but the most determined attacker, yet on the scale the RMN is operating on, it wouldn't be particularly significant, and indeed, would be less than one of the pre-war nodal forces like Hancock circa-SVW, in terms of hulls, not combat power.

Dafmeister wrote: Why would the citizens of Lynx be any more important than the citizens of Split? Or Rembrandt? Or even Nuncio? If you say Lynx is more important because it's a member of the Star Kingdom, rather than the Star Empire, you create an implicitly two-tier citizenship which goes against everything I've seen in the books. The RMN has a lot of systems to cover now; it'll have to prioritise, and Lynx can't be high on the list.

And I would note that the SEM has sent 40 capital ships (20 SD(P) and 20 CLAC's, along with at least 2 squadrons of BC's and assorted smaller ships (RFC got a little confusing on numbers there at the end of SoF) to defend the Sector--and the several squadrons of LAC's in each system. (Nobody counted on Mike Henke taking them to Meyers and then Mesa!!) So hardly two-tier defense--Lynx, being closest to the wormhole and a SKM member would be expected to be defended. I simply argue that it would be more defended than others seem to think.

Not worth a major argument, just a difference of opinion.

.....

....

(of course, I'm right..

Hutch wrote:
And I would note that the SEM has sent 40 capital ships (20 SD(P) and 20 CLAC's, along with at least 2 squadrons of BC's and assorted smaller ships (RFC got a little confusing on numbers there at the end of SoF) to defend the Sector--and the several squadrons of LAC's in each system. (Nobody counted on Mike Henke taking them to Meyers and then Mesa!!) So hardly two-tier defense--Lynx, being closest to the wormhole and a SKM member would be expected to be defended. I simply argue that it would be more defended than others seem to think.

Not worth a major argument, just a difference of opinion.

.....

....

(of course, I'm right..

Many of the Talbott Quadrant systems are considerably more distant from League bases than Lynx, and any of them are more accessible than any other Manticoran world. (This applies direct from the Core, even with Madras whacked by 10th Fleet.) So by that measure, it may call for an immediate defensive force about as powerful as those in other League-ward Talbott Quadrant (or "trans-Lynx-Terminus" systems, for Talbott plus Lynx). In fact, looking at a map, Lynx is the closest to the Core, with Split a close second.

While Lynx can call for relief from the terminus or Manticore, that won't help keep it from being captured and delivering a Solarian PR victory, even if they cannot hold it. A mobile force in Lynx, in addition to defending it, is something that would keep the Lynx Terminus from being kept, or left in peace, by the League, in the wildly hypothetical case of it somehow being taken.

It's certainly not a critical system, and the people there don't inherently "deserve" more protection than anyone else. I doubt their political pull in Parliament is yet so strong as to make for wild swings in military policy. But as has been said, their status as part of the Old Star Kingdom may make a difference in their value as a target, as may proximity to the terminus and to the League Core (by comparison with any other Manticoran system).