A little dirtier topic, how about NBC being used in Safehold

While I am not in favor of weapons of mass destruction being introduced in the story on the reformists' side I find the topic interesting.

Regarding biological weapons I am sure that 31st century tech could come up with several safeguards that would make human-to-human transmission difficult. Such things can be done even today (for research purposes scientists in real life have recently developed a deadly flu strain which they gen-engineered in such a way that the human body would automatically kill it if it ever escaped the labs).
So IMO this suggestion actually has merit. Still I think it dangerous. Microbes tend to mutate fast. Pretty safe doesn't mean completely safe.

Also the story wouldn't be very interesting

Most of all introducing WMDs in such a way would set a very bad example for Safehold's future history. Once this can of worms is opened who knows what future generations would do with it.

The latter argument goes for chemical weapons as well. I am sure people in WWI thought them a good idea when they first came up with them. But they soon were taught better.

Actually I am afraid biological weapons would be a logical choice for the Temple really. Introducing the Plague or something like that in the Empire of Charis must be very tempting for Clynthan.

munroburton wrote:Using biological weapons as an assassination tool is very unpredictable. Admittedly without airports, Safehold is less susceptible to a pandemic, but still. Anyone you poison with a disease is going to be infectious before they die. If that person visits a brothel, the entire city could be dead in weeks.

Given how much business Zion's brothels seem to get, more like days.

I agree that a disease among the Go4 and the Inquisition would support the belief that they're in God's bad books. But however beneficial this is in the short term, starting a bio-war on the last planet of humanity is a bad idea. As the quote puts so well.

clancy688 wrote:
So far the Church has shown absolutely NO scruples in using any weapon, tactic, or strategy at their disposal, no matter how horrible it may be, to suit its own needs.

So if they haven't discovered the possibility of biological and chemical weapons, in Charis' case I'd do everything, EVERYTHING at all to make sure it damn stays that way.

And the LAST thing I'd want to do is making the Church aware of the possibility and existance of such weapons.

Biological and chemical weapons are undesireable to the Charisians because of the probable blowback. If they use such weapons even the more moderate Haven/Howard citizens will find it easy to believe zionist (Inquisition) proaganda that Charis is in league with Shan-wei since that would be the only way for them to get something so hideous. It would also make zionist propaganda that Charis has broken the proscriptions quite believable as well as true.

Explosives and napalm can be (more or less) explained while staying within Chihiro while CS, phosgene or E. Coli can't.

Remember that the average safeholdian does not know what a germ is.

ErikM wrote:Biological and chemical weapons are undesireable to the Charisians because of the probable blowback. If they use such weapons even the more moderate Haven/Howard citizens will find it easy to believe zionist (Inquisition) proaganda that Charis is in league with Shan-wei since that would be the only way for them to get something so hideous. It would also make zionist propaganda that Charis has broken the proscriptions quite believable as well as true.

Explosives and napalm can be (more or less) explained while staying within Chihiro while CS, phosgene or E. Coli can't.

Remember that the average safeholdian does not know what a germ is.

That is why it would become an act of God, no one knows how it happen. God punished the corrupt Temple with death and left the COG untouched. Charis then gets to write a new chapter in the churches history. With all the mess the temple will have caused by then, the wreck of the economy, thousand of deaths, starvation, they can easily be made into the corrupt bad guys. Changing the worlds beliefs will be a lot harder. That can be speeded up by Charis being a white knight and helping stabilize the Temple's mess. That still leave Langhorn's mess to clean up but COG will have moral maneuvering room to chip away at it. With the leadership in the Temple gone, killed by God, there will be a huge vacuum that the COG can fill.

The main hitch in all this is the Environment systems in the Temple. What are they built to catch. What would it do if it detected a deathly airborne short duration bio attack. Could it seal off temple sections and prevent the spread in time. How fast would the detection and the reaction time to it be.

Chief-CWH wrote:.

A biologic strike with in the temple complex is possible. How much food is brought into it every day? It would be very easy to add a mutated virus to it that would only take out the people who ate the most expensive foods. Yes it is assassination by poison.

This would most likely be a recipe for disaster. Remember how rare food becomes during the winter months in Zion? Even during the summer Duchairn has his soup kitchens running. It's a good bet that the servants in the temple have a system for taking home the "leftovers" from the vicar's meals. So targeting any food in the temple is pretty much guaranteed to kill a bunch of innocent people. Using a biological agent rather than poison would kill even more.

So don't look for RFC or Charis to use this sort of strategy. Charis has to be the good guys, no matter how terrifying or deadly their new technology may be. It all complies with the Proscriptions - with a bit of creative interpretation by our favorite intendant and head of the patent office.

Besides, do you really want to miss the scene where the ICN sails to Temple Bay and starts putting the troops ashore? Merlin, Cayleb, and Sharley have all sworn to do that! Clyntahn is going to meet his maker in a very personal and painful way - and he's going to know exactly who killed him, what sins he's committed, and that Shan-Wei was one of the good guys. See snippet #1 for an example of how I'd like to see Clyntahn die, but he's too fat for that to work. Gonna need a sword. I'm sure Major Phandys will be willing to loan them one!

The Proscriptions need to be entirely discarded, and Clyntahn is doing a bang-up job of that. So despite the human cost, would the EoC really want to kill off the monster who is doing exactly what they need him to do? His day will come when the CoGA is bankrupt and loses the war, which will badly shake the faith of people worldwide - even in Harchong, if the surviving soldiers are allowed to return home and tell their horror stories about the Inquisition.

The CoGA needs to be destroyed, and the more people the Inquisition tortures to death in the name of "saving their souls," the less the populace (and those in other countries who read the broadsheets tacked to walls by OWL) will support mother church. Thirsk is an excellent example of how someone who understands what's really going on longs to throw off the shackles of the CoGA and strike back.

Frankly, given the incredibly harsh behavior of the Inquisition in Siddarmark, a rebellion in the conquered provinces is likely, as those whose neighbors denounce them to the Inquisition as heretics are likely to disappear and form resistance movements. I wouldn't be surprised if many of the soldiers who witness "The Punishment of Schueler" don't defect and join them, or at least decide to take justice into their own hands.

Charis won't be the only one with a "kill on sight" policy where inquisitors are concerned!

Nuclear? Biological? Chemical?

Naaaah.

Go all out and use a krakenado!

jchilds wrote:Nuclear? Biological? Chemical?

Naaaah.

Go all out and use a krakenado!

Now there's a terror weapon!

That was a good question about the Temple's HVAC computer.

Could it detect and neutralize a fuel-air explosive?

A pilgrim could deliver it, even a large one. "For the glory of God, our inspired artisans have built this inspiringly beautiful wooden horse ..."

McGuiness wrote:

Chief-CWH wrote:.

A biologic strike with in the temple complex is possible. How much food is brought into it every day? It would be very easy to add a mutated virus to it that would only take out the people who ate the most expensive foods. Yes it is assassination by poison.

This would most likely be a recipe for disaster. Remember how rare food becomes during the winter months in Zion? Even during the summer Duchairn has his soup kitchens running. It's a good bet that the servants in the temple have a system for taking home the "leftovers" from the vicar's meals. So targeting any food in the temple is pretty much guaranteed to kill a bunch of innocent people. Using a biological agent rather than poison would kill even more.

So don't look for RFC or Charis to use this sort of strategy. Charis has to be the good guys, no matter how terrifying or deadly their new technology may be. It all complies with the Proscriptions - with a bit of creative interpretation by our favorite intendant and head of the patent office.

Using biologicals is a bad idea, unless you're doing a specially tailored biological to specifically target somebody you know enough about to target. However ... you plant your slow-acting chemical/poisonous agents in the finer alcoholic drinks. Possibly use binary agents. Even if the leftovers get distributed to the servants/poor, they're not going to be getting any of the liquor or wine in any sort of quantity.
Or, if you don't want to kill them outright, you use hallucinogenics, and watch them trip out.
Or ... for kicks and giggles, have Owl figure out what to spike their food supply with to make them all impotent. It's subtle, but if nobody can get it up, that's just bad for morale, and if it gets out that, say, Clyntahn's having erectile difficulties, that's fodder for all kinds of malicious jokes/propaganda.

Besides, do you really want to miss the scene where the ICN sails to Temple Bay and starts putting the troops ashore? Merlin, Cayleb, and Sharley have all sworn to do that! Clyntahn is going to meet his maker in a very personal and painful way - and he's going to know exactly who killed him, what sins he's committed, and that Shan-Wei was one of the good guys. See snippet #1 for an example of how I'd like to see Clyntahn die, but he's too fat for that to work. Gonna need a sword. I'm sure Major Phandys will be willing to loan them one!

The Proscriptions need to be entirely discarded, and Clyntahn is doing a bang-up job of that. So despite the human cost, would the EoC really want to kill off the monster who is doing exactly what they need him to do? His day will come when the CoGA is bankrupt and loses the war, which will badly shake the faith of people worldwide - even in Harchong, if the surviving soldiers are allowed to return home and tell their horror stories about the Inquisition.

The CoGA needs to be destroyed, and the more people the Inquisition tortures to death in the name of "saving their souls," the less the populace (and those in other countries who read the broadsheets tacked to walls by OWL) will support mother church. Thirsk is an excellent example of how someone who understands what's really going on longs to throw off the shackles of the CoGA and strike back.

Frankly, given the incredibly harsh behavior of the Inquisition in Siddarmark, a rebellion in the conquered provinces is likely, as those whose neighbors denounce them to the Inquisition as heretics are likely to disappear and form resistance movements. I wouldn't be surprised if many of the soldiers who witness "The Punishment of Schueler" don't defect and join them, or at least decide to take justice into their own hands.

Charis won't be the only one with a "kill on sight" policy where inquisitors are concerned!

Personally, I'm rather looking forwards to that.

Expert snuggler wrote:That was a good question about the Temple's HVAC computer.

Could it detect and neutralize a fuel-air explosive?

A pilgrim could deliver it, even a large one. "For the glory of God, our inspired artisans have built this inspiringly beautiful wooden horse ..."

Expert snuggler wrote:That was a good question about the Temple's HVAC computer.

Could it detect and neutralize a fuel-air explosive?

A pilgrim could deliver it, even a large one. "For the glory of God, our inspired artisans have built this inspiringly beautiful wooden horse ..."

Depends on how big you tried to make it. A relatively small one would probably be doable, but if you try to make it too big (that is, want a wider distribution of the fuel vapors before igniting them), you'd run the risk of the vapors entering the ventilation system proper, rather than just spreading through a room or chamber, in which case, there would almost certainly be automatic safety features that would trigger.