The Duckk'ing of the GOD EXISTS thread

= America isn't. And I truly did not mean it in that fashion. I meant that America is the one place one would expect to have religious freedom andt where people will fight to the death of every last man to protect that freedom. Soldiers will fight to protect that freedom even if they are non-believers themselves. I've even heard soldiers say they went into battle non-believers but their belief was fired in the kiln of hell.

Sure there are other countries where freedom of religion is practiced and protected. But as an American, it is part of our Constitution. In our hearts and minds. You can bank on it. Count on it. And rely on it NOT being lip service. And other countries have come to rely on being able to request American intervention. I am proud of that. Even if sometimes the US gets it wrong, I am still proud of the intent.

American patriotism, by definition, and that which is associated with it is exclusive to Americans. I expect a certain state-of-mind from Americans. I can expect more from Americans out of pride. That is just the definition of patriotism. And I hold Americans to a certain standard.

It is one of the reasons I grew up proud to be an American. And that is why I brought it up. It's an inherent, innate proud American thing. I cannot speak for other countries. I can speak for what America strives to be. Or did.

s.[/quote]

I'm desperately trying to find words that aren't insulting or confrontational, but can't. That has to be the most illinformed, naive, jingoistic, USA propaganda that I have ever read. Total rubbish, offensive to all other nationalities, and just plain wrong. Sorry, but I can't sugar coat it.

Daryl wrote:= America isn't. And I truly did not mean it in that fashion. I meant that America is the one place one would expect to have religious freedom andt where people will fight to the death of every last man to protect that freedom. Soldiers will fight to protect that freedom even if they are non-believers themselves. I've even heard soldiers say they went into battle non-believers but their belief was fired in the kiln of hell.

Sure there are other countries where freedom of religion is practiced and protected. But as an American, it is part of our Constitution. In our hearts and minds. You can bank on it. Count on it. And rely on it NOT being lip service. And other countries have come to rely on being able to request American intervention. I am proud of that. Even if sometimes the US gets it wrong, I am still proud of the intent.

American patriotism, by definition, and that which is associated with it is exclusive to Americans. I expect a certain state-of-mind from Americans. I can expect more from Americans out of pride. That is just the definition of patriotism. And I hold Americans to a certain standard.

It is one of the reasons I grew up proud to be an American. And that is why I brought it up. It's an inherent, innate proud American thing. I cannot speak for other countries. I can speak for what America strives to be. Or did.

Daryl wrote:I'm desperately trying to find words that aren't insulting or confrontational, but can't. That has to be the most illinformed, naive, jingoistic, USA propaganda that I have ever read. Total rubbish, offensive to all other nationalities, and just plain wrong. Sorry, but I can't sugar coat it.

It's called American pride and patriotism. It is what I mostly think of my country. Mostly.

To argue that would get us both exiled to the Politics subforum. Heavens no!

Did I name you? Did I name anyone? No. this was aimed at everyone as a general warning. Dont take offense, as none was implied or given.

cthia wrote:

Spacekiwi wrote:watch you dont get this thread locked down as well.

I am offended by that. If in fact you are implying that it is I who got that thread closed.

Indeed, the difference this time would be that I would NOT be appalled, shocked or surprised.

I'm just going to skip addressing the whole jingoism turn the discussion took since it seems to be wandering rather far off topic... and I won' bother arguing who offended who how and where since the only place that discussion will go is into a rehashing of the things that locked the first thread anyway.


What I will repeat is that the problem with this:

Daryl wrote:Cthia, I fully support the Duckk'ing because the thread had degenerated into two camps shouting at each other, but neither was listening.

or this:

Michael Riddell wrote:Both sides were too entrenched in their views, I personally thought the threat was no longer entertaining nor informative.

or this:

biochem wrote:Eventually is the key. Duckk specifically stated that religion threads were NOT banned, just that particular one. Initially there was some very interesting discussion before it deteriorated.

etc...

Is that if we accept this reasoning then the claim that religion threads in general are not excluded is, in practice, going to be false.


It is a problem inherent to debating a religious topic. When one side of the debate explicitly declares they hold their position through faith there's almost nowhere for the discussion to go except to two camps talking past each other and not being listened to. Religious debates changing the minds of one of the primary participants may be an ideal outcome, but generally the actual point is to make the arguments for the benefit of onlookers who perhaps have not adopted a position on the matter yet.

This idea that the thread started out well and then eventually degenerated into unproductive dialog is a fiction. Both sides were talking past each other from page one, as will happen again if anyone starts any new threads debating the topic of any religious belief. What happened is enough people finally got tired/bored of it and some started to complain.


I mean come on, does anyone consider this NOT talking past each other?

cythia: GOD EXISTS

Imaginos:So you say. Present your evidence.

GOD DOES NOT EXIST

Prove it wrong.

cythia:Funny you should say that because I'm involved in personal research to do just that...

Beyond the Bible, personal faith and the fact that nothing from nothing leaves ... nothing.

And because "I AM" said so and that's the stone cold truth that'll eventually become hot as Hell.

We're on page 2 there. Please someone make an argument that is talking past each other to any lesser degree than anything that happened at the end of the thread. That's just how religious debates look. Always will.

So either that's unacceptable and we should just up front say "no God debates"... or resign yourself to the fact that that's what God debates look like and let it go... if you don't want to see it avoid the thread.

I seem to recall answering a question about Judaism on
a religious thread. (perhaps not this thread.)

HTM

cthia wrote:{snip - htm}
That is why I invited a Catholic and a Jew, Howard, to exchanges. I understand, accept and respect that he passed on it. Can't say that I blame him either.
{Snip -htm}

Personally, I don't mind the topic of religion, as long as we keep religion out of it of course.

Ok, silly comment aside. Comparitive religious discussions, history, etc. Not 800 pound gorilla topics.



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If you haven't seen the 2014 movie Heaven Is For Real, I strongly recommend it. I just finished watching it awash with tears. It airs again tonight at 9:30 on EFAM.

The movie surrounds a near death experience of a four-year-old Colton Burpo.

At the beginning and the end of the movie there is featured a bit regarding a child prodigy Akiane Kramarik, that ties in well with the movie. What an extraordinary account of events.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akiane_Kramarik

cthia wrote:If you haven't seen the 2014 movie Heaven Is For Real, I strongly recommend it. I just finished watching it awash with tears. It airs again tonight at 9:30 on EFAM.

The movie surrounds a near death experience of a four-year-old Colton Burpo.

But be sure just to watch it for entertainment value, as buying into the 'based on a true story' hype would put you in the position of believing the religiously motivated testimony of a young child.

And that's for the willfully gullible, for obvious reasons:


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/sty ... publisher/

Of course. Do watch it... for its entertainment value.

Epiphanies and truths are born within one's own convictions.

Only[,] absolute truth stands on its own.

Absolutely.