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My rant/fantasy regarding the A-10(A&B) Warthog.

For anyone who might want to have a side conversation...you're welcome here!
Re: My rant/fantasy regarding the A-10(A&B) Warthog.
Post by Dilandu   » Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:18 am

Dilandu
Admiral

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Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 1:44 pm
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Compromize solution...

http://api.ning.com/files/IUPXshmpyX2Us ... height=456

Sadly, seems to be not real.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: My rant/fantasy regarding the A-10(A&B) Warthog.
Post by Ensign Re-read   » Sun May 03, 2015 10:52 pm

Ensign Re-read
Commodore

Posts: 763
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 4:24 pm

HEY! I was (trying to) clean out my office today, when I found my old copy of Douglas N. Campbell's "The Warthog and the Close Air Support Debate"
(published by Naval Institute Press, First Printing, 2003)

Very cool. I thought this copy was Looooong gone.
I'll have to re-read it again one of these days.
But for now, "Real Life" interrupts...


ERR


,
=====
The Celestia "addon" for the Planet Safehold as well as the Kau-zhi and Manticore A-B star systems, are at URL:
http://www.lepp.cornell.edu/~seb/celestia/weber/.
=====
http://www.flickr.com/photos/68506297@N ... 740128635/
=====
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Re: My rant/fantasy regarding the A-10(A&B) Warthog.
Post by Ensign Re-read   » Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:02 pm

Ensign Re-read
Commodore

Posts: 763
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 4:24 pm

This just released...

https://medium.com/war-is-boring/no-the ... 151453dde6



.
=====
The Celestia "addon" for the Planet Safehold as well as the Kau-zhi and Manticore A-B star systems, are at URL:
http://www.lepp.cornell.edu/~seb/celestia/weber/.
=====
http://www.flickr.com/photos/68506297@N ... 740128635/
=====
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Re: My rant/fantasy regarding the A-10(A&B) Warthog.
Post by Tenshinai   » Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:19 pm

Tenshinai
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Location: Sweden

Ensign Re-read wrote:This just released...

https://medium.com/war-is-boring/no-the ... 151453dde6



.


:lol:

How pathetic can the anti-A-10 crowd get? I hadn´t actually heard more than about half of those excuses, and i mean seriously... :roll:

A-10 is a good plane, F-35 isn´t, end of story.
Basic truth of warfare is to reinforce success and cut losses from failure.
And here they are trying to do the exact opposite.

*le sigh*... :mrgreen:
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Re: My rant/fantasy regarding the A-10(A&B) Warthog.
Post by Relax   » Tue Jul 07, 2015 7:08 am

Relax
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Tactical Air Controller: Forward Air Controller:

History and Vietnam: http://www.afhso.af.mil/shared/media/do ... 23-037.pdf

Declassified now. In my opinion it should not be.

Whatever, enjoy the read. A bit dry, but hey, can't have everything.
_________
Tally Ho!
Relax
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Re: My rant/fantasy regarding the A-10(A&B) Warthog.
Post by Tenshinai   » Tue Jul 07, 2015 12:34 pm

Tenshinai
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Relax wrote:Tactical Air Controller: Forward Air Controller:

History and Vietnam: http://www.afhso.af.mil/shared/media/do ... 23-037.pdf

Declassified now. In my opinion it should not be.

Whatever, enjoy the read. A bit dry, but hey, can't have everything.


It´s declassified because anyone who wants to know about it already does. And it only hurts YOUR own side to keep "secrets" that everyone else knows.
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Re: My rant/fantasy regarding the A-10(A&B) Warthog.
Post by Relax   » Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:01 pm

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Tenshinai wrote:
Relax wrote:Tactical Air Controller: Forward Air Controller:

History and Vietnam: http://www.afhso.af.mil/shared/media/do ... 23-037.pdf

Declassified now. In my opinion it should not be.

Whatever, enjoy the read. A bit dry, but hey, can't have everything.


It´s declassified because anyone who wants to know about it already does. And it only hurts YOUR own side to keep "secrets" that everyone else knows.


They may, they may not. Pulling all of the history together and putting into a document in a step by step manual of what to do and what not to do and declassifying it is just dumb. At least force the other side to be organized enough to track down the information and tabulate what does and does not work from word of mouth. And quite a bit of that is not word of mouth availability.
_________
Tally Ho!
Relax
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Re: My rant/fantasy regarding the A-10(A&B) Warthog.
Post by Tenshinai   » Tue Jul 07, 2015 4:20 pm

Tenshinai
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Relax wrote:
They may, they may not. Pulling all of the history together and putting into a document in a step by step manual of what to do and what not to do and declassifying it is just dumb. At least force the other side to be organized enough to track down the information and tabulate what does and does not work from word of mouth. And quite a bit of that is not word of mouth availability.


Seriously, you actually think that document is the ultimate and perfect doctrine overview?

Having read the Soviet evaluation paper on the same subject from the 80s, i can guarantee that that is complete rubbish.

And the TWO evaluations (that i know of) that was done by Swedish military in 80s and 00s.
Germans did at least 3 papers on the subject, though i´ve only read one of them partially, still, that was from the 90s and i would rate it as more comprehensive.

And what "word of mouth"? Really, i don´t think you have any clue just how much military information is floating around at any specific time. There was a lot even before internet, and today there´s so much i could spend years just finding everything for a single wide subject.
Even if you stick strictly to either primary or secondary sources, you can still get just about anything except the absolute latest(and sometimes that as well), or stuff that is so obscure too few people ever knew about it.

And frankly, on this subject, you can get about as much value out of reading the evaluations and doctrine papers from WWII Germany and 70s-80s USSR.
With USA never truly being fond of the CAS concept(well, not the airforce at least), it´s also not the authority on the subject and probably never will be.
It can be argued they have the most experience with PGMs, but it´s a tenuous claim, as there has almost never been much usage against capable opponents.


And unless US folks are completely stupid(which i know they´re not) they can now add this document to their training and common knowledge base, and work on how to apply lessons learned for the future. Without declassifying it, everyone else would have the vast majority of data(or more likely even more, as additional information has been added continuosly since that was written) and be able to use it as part of training and decision making, while USA would effectively be forced to keep the data buried, despite all of it being accessible elsewhere already.
Major negative to yourself to keep it classified at that point.
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Re: My rant/fantasy regarding the A-10(A&B) Warthog.
Post by MAD-4A   » Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:42 am

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Any manual on "What to-do/not-to-do" has to be a guideline not a definitive answer. There is only 1 "to-do" and 1 "not-to-do" in military tactics and those are "Do what the enemy isn't expecting" and don't do "what he is expecting". So any written-in-stone rule book is still subject to change as the situation and enemy preparation changes, or your force is subject to annihilation. Giving out, dated, information is not an issue, and may be advantageous if the (future) enemy uses it to base there tactics and you use it to predict and counter those tactics.
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Almost only counts in Horseshoes and Nuclear Weapons. I almost got the Hand-Grenade out the window does not count.
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Re: My rant/fantasy regarding the A-10(A&B) Warthog.
Post by Tenshinai   » Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:22 am

Tenshinai
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MAD-4A wrote:Any manual on "What to-do/not-to-do" has to be a guideline not a definitive answer. There is only 1 "to-do" and 1 "not-to-do" in military tactics and those are "Do what the enemy isn't expecting" and don't do "what he is expecting". So any written-in-stone rule book is still subject to change as the situation and enemy preparation changes, or your force is subject to annihilation. Giving out, dated, information is not an issue, and may be advantageous if the (future) enemy uses it to base there tactics and you use it to predict and counter those tactics.


Exactly.
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