(SPOILER) Nynian’s info and beyond (SPOILER)

dwileye13 wrote:

n7axw wrote:I think that the most likely thing for Nynian to bring Merlin to see would be the journal. So far Nynian has done the most in terms of trust. This would be the next logical step.

As for the main reason for the trip, I think it has to do with Duchairn's plot.

We shall see.

Don

Don,

I believe that to be true! But the question that burns is: How is she getting information from within the Temple and the politics of the Go4? The more we learn, the larger, more complex and integrated into the realms of power her activities become. Facinating! RFC will have a lot of 'splainin to do

Remember that Nynian has been a working girl and madam for 20 + years. She has her tentacles everywhere, and that more than likely includes the inquisition. Her networks didn't leave Zion when she did...

What will be really fascinating is if Rayno manages to uncover...if anything.

Don

n7axw wrote:

dwileye13 wrote:
Don,

I believe that to be true! But the question that burns is: How is she getting information from within the Temple and the politics of the Go4? The more we learn, the larger, more complex and integrated into the realms of power her activities become. Facinating! RFC will have a lot of 'splainin to do

Remember that Nynian has been a working girl and madam for 20 + years. She has her tentacles everywhere, and that more than likely includes the inquisition. Her networks didn't leave Zion when she did...

What will be really fascinating is if Rayno manages to uncover...if anything.

Don

Don, Yes she was all of that, but the 'working girl' while true was (IMHO) a cover for the 'convent' of the SSK. The center of her operations as the head of the Sisters of Saint Kohdy. She has financial, political and influence spread across all Haven and perhaps Howard.

Her Name "Nynian Rychtar" has historical meaning in Siddermark and Harchong (although no connection has been made in Textev). Her Sisterhood has quietly done charity and monitored the Church from within and without.

The SSK seems to be running an effiecient Hit Squad within the Temple/Zion itself that has good tactical sense and training. Money, Power, Influence and a small well trained Army is a bit more than a 'working woman' can usually pull together. I look forward to the opening of the flower that is Nynian.

AND I still hold out for a romantic connection to Merlin, they deserve each other.

Hi Dwileye13,

Well they have to have a reason to keep meeting, don't they?

You think the guards would believe they only talked all night?

L

dwileye13 wrote:

n7axw wrote:*quote="dwileye13"*

Don,

I believe that to be true! But the question that burns is: How is she getting information from within the Temple and the politics of the Go4? The more we learn, the larger, more complex and integrated into the realms of power her activities become. Facinating! RFC will have a lot of 'splainin to do *quote*

Remember that Nynian has been a working girl and madam for 20 + years. She has her tentacles everywhere, and that more than likely includes the inquisition. Her networks didn't leave Zion when she did...

What will be really fascinating is if Rayno manages to uncover...if anything.

Don

Don, Yes she was all of that, but the 'working girl' while true was (IMHO) a cover for the 'convent' of the SSK. The center of her operations as the head of the Sisters of Saint Kohdy. She has financial, political and influence spread across all Haven and perhaps Howard.

Her Name "Nynian Rychtar" has historical meaning in Siddermark and Harchong (although no connection has been made in Textev). Her Sisterhood has quietly done charity and monitored the Church from within and without.

The SSK seems to be running an effiecient Hit Squad within the Temple/Zion itself that has good tactical sense and training. Money, Power, Influence and a small well trained Army is a bit more than a 'working woman' can usually pull together. I look forward to the opening of the flower that is Nynian.

AND I still hold out for a romantic connection to Merlin, they deserve each other.

dwileye13 wrote:\
SNIP

The SSK seems to be running an effiecient Hit Squad within the Temple/Zion itself that has good tactical sense and training. Money, Power, Influence and a small well trained Army is a bit more than a 'working woman' can usually pull together. I look forward to the opening of the flower that is Nynian.

AND I still hold out for a romantic connection to Merlin, they deserve each other.

Hmmm, better keep your eye out for the misogyny cops. Why would a "working girl" who ends up running her own highend bordello not be capable of doing all those things? That's sort of rhetorical cuz there ain't no accurate or smart or safe answer.

It is nice to know that Lyonheart and I have company in our desires to see a certain relationship grow much closer.

"Usually" is a word that doesn't apply to Nynian.

Most small business owners, which is what a madam is, don't run espionage networks and private armies. Those are specialized and rare skills.

Notice there's an interesting conflict lying ahead. She, Merlin, and the Emperors all have different goals after the end of the war. She may be the most dangerous of the three.

lyonheart wrote:Hi Dwileye13,

Well they have to have a reason to keep meeting, don't they?

You think the guards would believe they only talked all night?

L

As long as Cayleb takes advantage of that cover story to give Merlin a hard time about something, I'm all for it.

Expert snuggler wrote:"Usually" is a word that doesn't apply to Nynian.

Most small business owners, which is what a madam is, don't run espionage networks and private armies. Those are specialized and rare skills.

Notice there's an interesting conflict lying ahead. She, Merlin, and the Emperors all have different goals after the end of the war. She may be the most dangerous of the three.

I'm pretty sure that Nynian's goals have changed now that she understands and accepts that the CoGA is a complete and utter fraud.

Before she was taken to Nimue's cave and given the Big Reveal, her goal was to reform the CoGA, since she was a true believer. She faced a trial on conscience almost as great as Paityr Wylsynn's, yet we've seen very little of it - perhaps she's more pragmatic than he, and she wasn't the product of generations who believed they'd been commanded by an archangel to protect and nurture the church. Sandaria's reaction is more in line with what I expected from a true believer who is hit by the Big Reveal with no preparation - and I don't trust her at all!

I just don't see Nynian's goal to be reforming the CoGA now that she knows it's a complete fraud designed to chain mankind to the surface of Safehold forever. That doesn't mean she won't have her squad of commandos continue to eliminate the most perverted of the vicars - especially those who support Clyntahn because he's blackmailing them based on their deviant behavior. Undermining Clyntahn's support is always a good idea.

Much to her shock, she finds herself as the head of a religious organization based on a false religion, yet all of the people she commands are extremely pious. When the Big Reveal comes, she may find herself deposed if it isn't handled properly. Seijin Kohdy's journal may be a big help, if she can get her organization to believe that the translation Merlin and OWL produce is accurate. Since we don't know exactly what it says, it's hard to predict how much it will help to convince the SSK of the truth.

It will be fascinating to watch!

She can always shift her paradigm to God-worked-through-evil-humans-and-made-truth-shine-through-lies. A theist looking at the Writ with fresh eyes would logically conclude divine inspiration for big chunks of it.

Maybe she'll make her own Jefferson Bible.

Meantime, what about using her information for trials in absentia, maybe one at a time, held in places where the population needs to be convinced? Her network might even be able to kidnap a vicar and transport him to Siddarmark or Corisande for trial. Not-yet-canonized St. Staynair might have enough spiritual force and persuasiveness to talk the defendant into an honest confession. More worldly interrogators could point out that turning state's evidence and testifying against Clyntahn is more comfortable than a noose. "Don't you want to get even with Clyntahn for the way he blackmailed you?" would be another line of attack.

This is a psychological war at its heart and Nynian's weapons are going to be the most effective.

Expert snuggler wrote:SNIP
Meantime, what about using her information for trials in absentia, maybe one at a time, held in places where the population needs to be convinced? Her network might even be able to kidnap a vicar and transport him to Siddarmark or Corisande for trial. Not-yet-canonized St. Staynair might have enough spiritual force and persuasiveness to talk the defendant into an honest confession. More worldly interrogators could point out that turning state's evidence and testifying against Clyntahn is more comfortable than a noose. "Don't you want to get even with Clyntahn for the way he blackmailed you?" would be another line of attack.

This is a psychological war at its heart and Nynian's weapons are going to be the most effective.

You're certainly correct that at its heart the war is more about hearts and minds than just a jihad, at least from the allies' perspective. Unfortunately, any confession, that a kidnapped vicar gave, no matter how true and public would be construed as having been given under duress by the Inquisition, by Clyntahn, and by a good deal of the vicarate and most of the general populace.

It might be more effective just to publish each vicar's deviant behavior on the broadsheets that mysteriously appear across Howard and Haven. The people of Zion see these men in person now and then, and theoretically revere them, although vicars routinely need protective details to accompany them, including Duchairn who is known for his good works. Phandys isn't there just to spy on him, he's there to keep Duchairn alive! (And not just from Aivah's elite commandos...)

Once a vicar's deepest, darkest, most vile secrets are made public, Clyntahn doesn't have any leverage over him anymore. The vicar might get stoned to death by the general populace, or Clyntahn might have the Inquisition put him through the Punishment so it looks like the Grand Fornicator is doing his job and cleansing the vicarate, although I'm sure each broadsheet will also explain that Clyntahn knows all about the vicar's sins and has been blackmailing him to ensure his support.

The beauty of this approach, besides increasing the disgust the general populace feels towards the vicarate and fanning the flames of Reformism, is that Clyntahn would be forced to kill off his own supporters in order to appear to be doing his job!

Best of all, every time he did so his other supporters would be forced to think "Am I next?".