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Why Didn't Grayson Invade Masada? ...

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Why Didn't Grayson Invade Masada? ...
Post by HB of CJ   » Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:05 pm

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I for one have never figured that one out. Why didn't Grayson successfully invade Masada? Why "chain" yourselves to a planet requiring pressure domes when such good real estate was just a jump and a hop away? Curious. HB of CJ (old coot) Junior Captain.
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Re: Why Didn't Grayson Invade Masada? ...
Post by Erls   » Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:14 pm

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I would think it was because of two reasons:

1- Masada had a larger population and quite possible strong in-system defenses.
2- Grayson could not commit enough resources and people to make an offensive strike possible because they had to focus almost everything they had on food production and system defense.
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Re: Why Didn't Grayson Invade Masada? ...
Post by MaxxQ   » Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:56 pm

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Inertia and faith.

They had already been on Grayson for so long, that they were comfortable there - or at least as comfortable as they could be, given the circumstances.

Also, due to their religion, and the fact that that planet was the one Saint Austin chose for them to go to, it would almost be a rejection of everything they had grown up learning about their history and religion. That would be anathema to them.
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Re: Why Didn't Grayson Invade Masada? ...
Post by Kizarvexis   » Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:12 am

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It also almost beggared the planet just to send the small number of Masadans to that planet. There was not enough lift to send all of Grayson or even a significant portion of Grayson there. Later, they had a navy big enough to defend themselves, but not enough to conquer Masada. In HoTQ, they only got so close because of the Peep ships in their name.
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Re: Why Didn't Grayson Invade Masada? ...
Post by Tenshinai   » Tue Jul 07, 2015 4:15 am

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HB of CJ wrote:I for one have never figured that one out. Why didn't Grayson successfully invade Masada? Why "chain" yourselves to a planet requiring pressure domes when such good real estate was just a jump and a hop away? Curious. HB of CJ (old coot) Junior Captain.


Because it would have been suicidal?

They were afraid of being attacked by THEM, ergo Masada tended to be the ones with stronger military force.

And Grayson could barely get a naval force to Masada, and you expect them to suddenly and magically sprout the transport tonnage to move troops and supplies for those troops?

Not to mention how they would be outnumbered on the ground.
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Re: Why Didn't Grayson Invade Masada? ...
Post by drothgery   » Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:29 am

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Tenshinai wrote:They were afraid of being attacked by THEM, ergo Masada tended to be the ones with stronger military force.
The Masadan invasion of Grayson a generation prior to HotQ went... very poorly... for Masada. The Graysons were afraid of the Masadans because they were crazy (and therefore willing to do things that rational star nations don't, like EE violations), not because they were powerful.
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Re: Why Didn't Grayson Invade Masada? ...
Post by BobfromSydney   » Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:41 am

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It think the terms of the treaty that prevented the Masadans from using the doomsday weapon would have granted the planet to them in perpetuity.

I appreciate that this would have been null and void after the first Masadan attack against Grayson, however they might had already missed the opportunity to invade by that point.
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Re: Why Didn't Grayson Invade Masada? ...
Post by JeffEngel   » Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:41 am

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drothgery wrote:
Tenshinai wrote:They were afraid of being attacked by THEM, ergo Masada tended to be the ones with stronger military force.
The Masadan invasion of Grayson a generation prior to HotQ went... very poorly... for Masada. The Graysons were afraid of the Masadans because they were crazy (and therefore willing to do things that rational star nations don't, like EE violations), not because they were powerful.

Still, attacks tended to be from Masada to Grayson. Grayson may have had an edge that way, in that their retaliations when they needed to make them went better than Masada's attacks on Grayson, but craziness meant a lot more will to attack and with fewer self-imposed restrictions, and retaliation to destroy war-making capability is so very much easier than trying to invade, conquer, occupy, and pacify.

There's every reason to suppose Grayson had the means to defend itself and, sometimes, spoil or degrade Masada's ability to attack it, without thereby having the means to invade Masada successfully. White Haven, having that ability - after the Masadan Navy had been whacked by the GSN and Harrington's scratch squadron at horrible cost - was thereby made one of the two living superheroes on Grayson among people born elsewhere. Even then, occupying Masada has been a long, ugly drain on Manticore; they're suffering less hate than Grayson would doing it; and they're managing it by just keeping minimal order while letting Masadans try to work out an acceptable government of their own and controlling as best they can serious crap from orbit.
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Re: Why Didn't Grayson Invade Masada? ...
Post by Donnachaidh   » Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:42 am

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By HotQ Masada had a bigger navy plus many LACs. The Graysons would be attacking a numerically superior navy without a pressing need to. If the Masadans hadn't had the modern ships they did in HotQ, they would have had a very difficult time defeating Grayson's navy and fortifications.

HB of CJ wrote:I for one have never figured that one out. Why didn't Grayson successfully invade Masada? Why "chain" yourselves to a planet requiring pressure domes when such good real estate was just a jump and a hop away? Curious. HB of CJ (old coot) Junior Captain.


By HotQ Grayson could easily get a naval force to Masada. They could barely get to Masada after the Grayson Civil War which was about 500 years before HotQ.

Tenshinai wrote:And Grayson could barely get a naval force to Masada, and you expect them to suddenly and magically sprout the transport tonnage to move troops and supplies for those troops?
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"Sometimes I wonder if the world is run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain
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Re: Why Didn't Grayson Invade Masada? ...
Post by JeffEngel   » Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:43 am

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BobfromSydney wrote:It think the terms of the treaty that prevented the Masadans from using the doomsday weapon would have granted the planet to them in perpetuity.

I appreciate that this would have been null and void after the first Masadan attack against Grayson, however they might had already missed the opportunity to invade by that point.

Much of that period would have been when Grayson was still exhausted from exiling the Faithful, rebuilding, and war-weary anyway, so the window wasn't wide open from their end.
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