Notes from Weber--SPOILER WARNING!!!

We are pretty sure that the SLN is going to attack Beowulf. That much we have on textev. But after taking another reaming, do you really believe that they would attack Ehrewhon? They would have to be slow learners...really, really slow.

I think it much more likely that they will tumble to Maya's plans and send out a taskforce to keep Maya in the fold without realizing how Maya's naval capability has been updated.

Don

roseandheather wrote:

George J. Smith wrote:snipped

--Eloise and Emperess Elizabeth are going to forge even closer ties between Haven and Manticore, by giving citizenship in one polity the same recognition in the other (i.e., if a Manticorian moves to a Havenite system, he will be treated the same as if he was a Havenite, and visa versa for Havenites in the SEM.

Alfredo and Warner will be able to return to Haven without a death sentence hanging over their heads.

I would just like to point out one minor snag in this plan.

This snag is that Grayson, despite all outward appearances, is not really an appendage of Manticore.

It is its own sovereign nation, not subject to Manticore's decree. And I suspect that Grayson, with its inherent conservatism and, to an extent, provincialism, would hesitate to involve itself in a diplomatic move of this magnitude.

I could, however, very easily see an EU-style 'reciprocal relationship' forming between Grayson and Haven, in particular because of those two individuals you named, as well as the rest of the Elysian Space Navy.

That said, I very much doubt Warner or Alfredo would ever be pardoned. I elaborated on this in an earlier thread, but, however much she might wish to, Eloise can't pardon them. They did commit treason, and as a head of state, she cannot risk giving treason legitimacy.

With all that gloom and doom out of the way, however -- look at them just look at them they've found each other at last!!!

Hopefully Manticore will give them citizenship and all will be well.

n7axw wrote:We are pretty sure that the SLN is going to attack Beowulf. That much we have on textev. But after taking another reaming, do you really believe that they would attack Ehrewhon? They would have to be slow learners...really, really slow.

I think it much more likely that they will tumble to Maya's plans and send out a taskforce to keep Maya in the fold without realizing how Maya's naval capability has been updated.

Don

One could have said the same about not just the first incident in Talbott, but "pulling a Crandall" followed by "pulling a Filareta". Now obviously they can't know, as we the readers do, that both Filareta and Rajampett were manipulated by the nanite.

As far as the Mandarins can see, the only 'victory' in any shootings between the SLN and Manticoran units, was when Byng's battlecruisers destroyed unaware destroyers.

1st Tuscany: SLN with Byng
2nd Tuscany: Manticore with Henke
1st Spindle: Manticore with Terekhov
2nd Manticore: Grand Alliance with HHA

lesser engagements would be the various Laocoon 2 wormhole detachments, of which we've seen at least one actually open fire, to intimidate the SLN into backing down.

So the League's already operating at best, 1 victory in 5 engagements where warheads have gone off, the ratio gets worse if more than the one wormhole unit had to fire that we've been told about.

If the Mandarins were still stupid enough, and willing enough, to commit to attacking Beowulf even with full knowledge they've already lost every other shootout? They'd still send orders to attack Erewhon, just because they'd be convinced "this time we can do it!"

That one ONI guy, Dar-something, who keeps screaming "the sky is falling", and nobody's listening to him. He's like that little voice inside of every single person who gets killed by the nano-assassination, nobody hears it until it's too late.

Somtaaw wrote:

n7axw wrote:We are pretty sure that the SLN is going to attack Beowulf. That much we have on textev. But after taking another reaming, do you really believe that they would attack Ehrewhon? They would have to be slow learners...really, really slow.

I think it much more likely that they will tumble to Maya's plans and send out a taskforce to keep Maya in the fold without realizing how Maya's naval capability has been updated.

Don

One could have said the same about not just the first incident in Talbott, but "pulling a Crandall" followed by "pulling a Filareta". Now obviously they can't know, as we the readers do, that both Filareta and Rajampett were manipulated by the nanite.

As far as the Mandarins can see, the only 'victory' in any shootings between the SLN and Manticoran units, was when Byng's battlecruisers destroyed unaware destroyers.

1st Tuscany: SLN with Byng
2nd Tuscany: Manticore with Henke
1st Spindle: Manticore with Terekhov
2nd Manticore: Grand Alliance with HHA

lesser engagements would be the various Laocoon 2 wormhole detachments, of which we've seen at least one actually open fire, to intimidate the SLN into backing down.

So the League's already operating at best, 1 victory in 5 engagements where warheads have gone off, the ratio gets worse if more than the one wormhole unit had to fire that we've been told about.

If the Mandarins were still stupid enough, and willing enough, to commit to attacking Beowulf even with full knowledge they've already lost every other shootout? They'd still send orders to attack Erewhon, just because they'd be convinced "this time we can do it!"

That one ONI guy, Dar-something, who keeps screaming "the sky is falling", and nobody's listening to him. He's like that little voice inside of every single person who gets killed by the nano-assassination, nobody hears it until it's too late.

Make that at least 1 in 7, don't forget Zavala at Saltash and Terekhov at Mobius.

(edited for clarity)

George J. Smith wrote:Make that at least 1 in 7, don't forget Zavala at Saltash and Terekhov at Mobius.

(edited for clarity)

They can't possibly have actually heard about those engagements yet, and they've already committed to the 'attack Beowulf' option. Which is a point in their favor, because to their knowledge, it's still only 1 in 5. Then when the reports of Saltash and Mobius come rolling in, plus due to Beowulf being closer THAT report coming in.

And any others, they'd jump from 1 in 5, to 1 in X where X is 8 plus however many engagements readers dont know happened. I still think the Mandarin's would try to game the system, and if someone (that MAlign Captain with the drop-dead gorgeous wife) offers an 'attack Erewhon' idea, they'd grab the slot machine and pull the lever hard.

Somtaaw wrote:One could have said the same about not just the first incident in Talbott, but "pulling a Crandall" followed by "pulling a Filareta". Now obviously they can't know, as we the readers do, that both Filareta and Rajampett were manipulated by the nanite.

One minor (debatable) quibble: Rajampet wasn't, as far as we know, manipulated by nanites. Bought and paid for by the MAlign, yes, and with cold, hard cash, but not nanitized. His suicide was most likely voluntary, although I admit that without direct textev indicating that, he *could* have been directed by Detweiler's little friends. There's no textev either way.

I prefer to think he was manipulated by pure, simple bribery and/or blackmail, and at the end, he realized he was in *way* over his pay grade and just couldn't deal with the possible consequences and took the lazy way out.

MaxxQ wrote:

Somtaaw wrote:One could have said the same about not just the first incident in Talbott, but "pulling a Crandall" followed by "pulling a Filareta". Now obviously they can't know, as we the readers do, that both Filareta and Rajampett were manipulated by the nanite.

One minor (debatable) quibble: Rajampet wasn't, as far as we know, manipulated by nanites. Bought and paid for by the MAlign, yes, and with cold, hard cash, but not nanitized. His suicide was most likely voluntary, although I admit that without direct textev indicating that, he *could* have been directed by Detweiler's little friends. There's no textev either way.

I prefer to think he was manipulated by pure, simple bribery and/or blackmail, and at the end, he realized he was in *way* over his pay grade and just couldn't deal with the possible consequences and took the lazy way out.

There is textev - Rajampet has a Oh god, those Manties were right! The Mesans do have nano... mindscream as his arm picks the pulser up and shoots him. You might be confusing this with Janacek's suicide(which was genuine).

But yes, up to that point Rajampet was a paid agent. Had about three billion dollars stashed away, although I suspect the majority of that came from bribes for sweetheart deals with SLN suppliers during the three decades or so that Rajampet was CNO rather than being the payoff for sending Byng, Crandall and Filareta out.

MaxxQ wrote:

Somtaaw wrote:One could have said the same about not just the first incident in Talbott, but "pulling a Crandall" followed by "pulling a Filareta". Now obviously they can't know, as we the readers do, that both Filareta and Rajampett were manipulated by the nanite.

One minor (debatable) quibble: Rajampet wasn't, as far as we know, manipulated by nanites. Bought and paid for by the MAlign, yes, and with cold, hard cash, but not nanitized. His suicide was most likely voluntary, although I admit that without direct textev indicating that, he *could* have been directed by Detweiler's little friends. There's no textev either way.

I prefer to think he was manipulated by pure, simple bribery and/or blackmail, and at the end, he realized he was in *way* over his pay grade and just couldn't deal with the possible consequences and took the lazy way out.

I stand corrected that he wasn't actually manipulated by the nanites to produce skewed, and stupid plans. But if he wasn't directly working for Mesa, he was definitely being influenced by them. But in the end, he did shoot himself because of the nanites.

MaxxQ wrote:

Somtaaw wrote:One could have said the same about not just the first incident in Talbott, but "pulling a Crandall" followed by "pulling a Filareta". Now obviously they can't know, as we the readers do, that both Filareta and Rajampett were manipulated by the nanite.

One minor (debatable) quibble: Rajampet wasn't, as far as we know, manipulated by nanites. Bought and paid for by the MAlign, yes, and with cold, hard cash, but not nanitized. His suicide was most likely voluntary, although I admit that without direct textev indicating that, he *could* have been directed by Detweiler's little friends. There's no textev either way.

I prefer to think he was manipulated by pure, simple bribery and/or blackmail, and at the end, he realized he was in *way* over his pay grade and just couldn't deal with the possible consequences and took the lazy way out.

Rajampet was manipulated into committing suicide by nanites. Bought and paid for with hard cash, yes. But he didn't suicide of his own volition.

Filereta was bought with cold cash along with other "perks", but not manipulated by nanites. One of his bridge officers was, though and as a result launched the missiles and blew up the flag bridge.

Don

Somtaaw wrote:

n7axw wrote:We are pretty sure that the SLN is going to attack Beowulf. That much we have on textev. But after taking another reaming, do you really believe that they would attack Ehrewhon? They would have to be slow learners...really, really slow.

I think it much more likely that they will tumble to Maya's plans and send out a taskforce to keep Maya in the fold without realizing how Maya's naval capability has been updated.

Don

One could have said the same about not just the first incident in Talbott, but "pulling a Crandall" followed by "pulling a Filareta". Now obviously they can't know, as we the readers do, that both Filareta and Rajampett were manipulated by the nanite.

As far as the Mandarins can see, the only 'victory' in any shootings between the SLN and Manticoran units, was when Byng's battlecruisers destroyed unaware destroyers.

1st Tuscany: SLN with Byng
2nd Tuscany: Manticore with Henke
1st Spindle: Manticore with Terekhov
2nd Manticore: Grand Alliance with HHA

lesser engagements would be the various Laocoon 2 wormhole detachments, of which we've seen at least one actually open fire, to intimidate the SLN into backing down.

So the League's already operating at best, 1 victory in 5 engagements where warheads have gone off, the ratio gets worse if more than the one wormhole unit had to fire that we've been told about.

If the Mandarins were still stupid enough, and willing enough, to commit to attacking Beowulf even with full knowledge they've already lost every other shootout? They'd still send orders to attack Erewhon, just because they'd be convinced "this time we can do it!"

That one ONI guy, Dar-something, who keeps screaming "the sky is falling", and nobody's listening to him. He's like that little voice inside of every single person who gets killed by the nano-assassination, nobody hears it until it's too late.

I will point out that Kingsford has already figured out that they can't go toe to toe with the Alliance with SDs. He may have accepted orders to attack Beowulf without realizing that he will run into the system defense pods (Mycroft). I doubt that even the Mandrains will want to keep feeding SDs into the sausage grinder.

Then, too, why attack Erewhon? From Old Chicago's standpoint, Erewhon has not been on the event horizon, poses no real threat and is not particularly important. Most certainly they have their hands full dealing with what has already happened.

Don