Captured Solly SDs

drothgery wrote:

n7axw wrote:No way was Haven ever going to tackle the League in the pre-Buttercup era. At that point the League was the gorilla in the room that nobody wanted to cross. Up until when Erewhon left the alliance to enter a defensive alliance with the Republic, Haven was still depending upon the League for tech transfers.

They would not depend on the League for tech transfers after conquering Manticore (and Silesia and the Andermani Empire). My contention has always been that although the powers that be in Haven believed they'd be able to stop playing conquistador after conquering Manticore, Silesia, and the Andermani, they actually would not have been able to. And there was only one place left to go after that.

But after taking all that (and control of Manticore's wormhole) they shouldn't need to go after the League.

The wormhole network centered around the Junction should bring in sufficient money to support their wellfare state for a long time (especially since it's a tax source that by-and-large doesn't depend on Havenite industry. So even as their dole sucks people and resources out of their industry the transit fees keep on rolling in almost unabated. (Now with competitive factories you can get further advantage by trading, and taxes on those businesses. Which is a nice bonus).

And that economic implosion (and the riots and political unrest that would ensue if they tried to curtail even the rate of growth of the dole) is why they were playing conquistador in the first place. With that sinkhole in their budget filled for decades they wouldn't have any immediate reason to attempt further annexations.

drothgery wrote:They would not depend on the League for tech transfers after conquering Manticore (and Silesia and the Andermani Empire). My contention has always been that although the powers that be in Haven believed they'd be able to stop playing conquistador after conquering Manticore, Silesia, and the Andermani, they actually would not have been able to. And there was only one place left to go after that.

Jonathan_S wrote:But after taking all that (and control of Manticore's wormhole) they shouldn't need to go after the League.

The wormhole network centered around the Junction should bring in sufficient money to support their wellfare state for a long time (especially since it's a tax source that by-and-large doesn't depend on Havenite industry. So even as their dole sucks people and resources out of their industry the transit fees keep on rolling in almost unabated. (Now with competitive factories you can get further advantage by trading, and taxes on those businesses. Which is a nice bonus).

And that economic implosion (and the riots and political unrest that would ensue if they tried to curtail even the rate of growth of the dole) is why they were playing conquistador in the first place. With that sinkhole in their budget filled for decades they wouldn't have any immediate reason to attempt further annexations.

True enough, Jonathan; but that would be in a universe without the Mesan Alignment.

With the MAlignment, it would be relatively easy to bring a bloated, corrupt Haven into conflict with a bloated, corrupt Solarian League, leading to both sides effectively breaking up and plunging Human space into a many-sided, devasting war...which the Renissiance Factor would lead back to sanity and growth....

Granted that I was guilty of resurrecting this thread once before, but since "here 'tis again...." in the "defense of Beowulf" role [already mostly suggested and dead] but picture these ships basically drone level crewed lighting off their drives from flanking positions in space, then starting to drop big salvos of DDMs from exterior rack mounted pods simply to screw up the SLN's wall formation and maneuvering.*

Once that SD is out of missiles, slave it as a missile itself at the SLN formation, then the few crew on the SD bail via pinnaces, shuttles etc. and get the heck out of the way. Stack them in two groups, do it twice, etc... Who knows, they might even take out a few SLN ships on the edges of an SLN wall? and at worst burn up a lot of the attacker's CM fire, totally screwing up the SLN's defensive capability.

By the time any SLN formation actually got in range of the Beowulf forces, they'd likely be less organized for mutual defense, making them much more vulnerable to destruction in detail or yet another forced surrender. That doesn't even count what the GA will do in mutual support from stealth if their hand is forced.

*I'm thinking that the actual missile controller would be in-system (likely a Sag-C sold to the Beowulfans in the mean time).

SharkHunter wrote:Granted that I was guilty of resurrecting this thread once before, but since "here 'tis again...." in the "defense of Beowulf" role [already mostly suggested and dead] but picture these ships basically drone level crewed lighting off their drives from flanking positions in space, then starting to drop big salvos of DDMs from exterior rack mounted pods simply to screw up the SLN's wall formation and maneuvering.*

Once that SD is out of missiles, slave it as a missile itself at the SLN formation, then the few crew on the SD bail via pinnaces, shuttles etc. and get the heck out of the way. Stack them in two groups, do it twice, etc... Who knows, they might even take out a few SLN ships on the edges of an SLN wall? and at worst burn up a lot of the attacker's CM fire, totally screwing up the SLN's defensive capability.

By the time any SLN formation actually got in range of the Beowulf forces, they'd likely be less organized for mutual defense, making them much more vulnerable to destruction in detail or yet another forced surrender. That doesn't even count what the GA will do in mutual support from stealth if their hand is forced.

*I'm thinking that the actual missile controller would be in-system (likely a Sag-C sold to the Beowulfans in the mean time).

Two problems. One: it takes a lot more crew than you seem to think just to get an old-style superdreadnought moving. Two: there is strong speculation that missiles need to be controlled from behind, not from in front. It would make sense if the control links on a missile are on the rear and not the front of a missile.

SWM wrote:

SharkHunter wrote:Granted that I was guilty of resurrecting this thread once before, but since "here 'tis again...." in the "defense of Beowulf" role [already mostly suggested and dead] but picture these ships basically drone level crewed lighting off their drives from flanking positions in space, then starting to drop big salvos of DDMs from exterior rack mounted pods simply to screw up the SLN's wall formation and maneuvering.*

Once that SD is out of missiles, slave it as a missile itself at the SLN formation, then the few crew on the SD bail via pinnaces, shuttles etc. and get the heck out of the way. Stack them in two groups, do it twice, etc... Who knows, they might even take out a few SLN ships on the edges of an SLN wall? and at worst burn up a lot of the attacker's CM fire, totally screwing up the SLN's defensive capability.

By the time any SLN formation actually got in range of the Beowulf forces, they'd likely be less organized for mutual defense, making them much more vulnerable to destruction in detail or yet another forced surrender. That doesn't even count what the GA will do in mutual support from stealth if their hand is forced.

*I'm thinking that the actual missile controller would be in-system (likely a Sag-C sold to the Beowulfans in the mean time).

Two problems. One: it takes a lot more crew than you seem to think just to get an old-style superdreadnought moving. Two: there is strong speculation that missiles need to be controlled from behind, not from in front. It would make sense if the control links on a missile are on the rear and not the front of a missile.

Willing to amend that then, put a Sag-C in each formation. The "get them moving part" would pretty much be "push launch sequence A" which starts dropping pods every so often while the SD accelerates, then "aim at the SLN formation at 2K-G accel once we finish abandoning ship".

I'm not saying it's a great plan, and nor that it would all that effective withou some luck and the SLN coming in a reasonably predictable vector [not that unlikely: they have to avoid the side with the wormhole junction].... but it would sure fox the SLN admirals for a while. Plus it has the poetically just advantage of at least making the SL dispose of their own trash, right?*

I'd buy popcorn to watch the after action footage, that is for sure.


*Fine I admit it: that was the punch line I was going for originally

Heaven and solly tech

heaven noticed that solly tech was way below manticore tech

when they bought solly tech while the war started

later about when the peoples republic of heaven was in power

heaven noticed that solly tech was equal to their own tech

then sollys lost conntact to heaven

and the republic of heaven got better tech then sollys, but worst then manticore
heaven got dual drive missiles , solys got shit

heaven got ecm sollys got shit

heaven got solly got shit

so at this point heaven is about nr 2

while manticore and grayson are nr 1

adamani are nr 3

a lot of others are nr 4 including the snakes and scorpions

solarian league is nr 5 or 6

so solarian league SD are totaly fine to combat solarian league battle cruisers

adamani got ftl and dualdrive on their own

svenhauke wrote:Heaven and solly tech

heaven noticed that solly tech was way below manticore tech

when they bought solly tech while the war started

later about when the peoples republic of heaven was in power

heaven noticed that solly tech was equal to their own tech

then sollys lost conntact to heaven

and the republic of heaven got better tech then sollys, but worst then manticore
heaven got dual drive missiles , solys got shit

heaven got ecm sollys got shit

heaven got solly got shit

so at this point heaven is about nr 2

while manticore and grayson are nr 1

adamani are nr 3

a lot of others are nr 4 including the snakes and scorpions

solarian league is nr 5 or 6

so solarian league SD are totaly fine to combat solarian league battle cruisers

Since Haven, the Anderman Empire, and Beowulf have all been given current Manticoran and Grayson tech, I think you have to count all of them as number 1 in tech. It will take a little while for each of them to gear up the production lines to build it, but they have the tech and will be producing it before Manticore does.

svenhauke wrote:heaven got dual drive missiles , solys got shit

Actually Haven never had dual drive missiles (that we've seen/heard about) -- they went straight to oversized 3-drive MDMs.

svenhauke wrote:adamani got ftl and dualdrive on their own

Right, it was the Andies who ended up with dual drives for their SD(P) missiles -- indicating that their homegrown MDM tech was even cruder than Haven's.

(But as SWM said that's kind of moot now since Manticore is sharing their tech with Haven, the Andies, and Beowulf)

There is one thing that the captured Solly SD would be good at, you use them as a hidden base that is stationed in a gravity wave in hyperspace. Keep it outside of the civilian bands and each ship would be part of a parked fleet of ships. No missiles would be used, in the gravity wave, so all those Grasers would be great.

Each ship will be able to park, using its warshawski sail to provide power and sensors. when they need supplies they just travel to a N space base and restock then return. They should be able to stay on station for months if not years. All missile ammo storage and feeds could be removed and converted into research labs, etc....