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Re: Presser/Tractor
by HB of CJ » Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:10 pm
HB of CJ Captain of the List Posts: 707 Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:46 pm Location: 43N, 123W Kinda	Yep. Maybe "God Particle" creation and modulation? Both graves and repellers, depending upon how the beam is modulated powered and controlled? Klingon disruptors work that way. Push and pull billions of times per second tuned to the enemy. Very nasty. Literally rips anything apart. Tamed down and employeed also known as either a tractor or pressor beam. HB
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Re: Presser/Tractor
by Louis R » Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:05 am
Louis R Rear Admiral Posts: 1298 Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 9:25 pm	It may be your tradition, but it certainly isn't mine There's a reason why both terms have been in use since long before I could read [I read the stories later, of course], and if you look you'll find at least 3 variations on the 'tradition': only tractors - since gravity can only pull things together, of course; tractors & pressors as distinct, non-interchangable, devices that _only_ move an object, more often than not accelerating it; and devices, generally called tractors, although Smith used the term tractor zone for this as a distinct variant from the other 2, that holds something in a fixed position WRT the ship or whatever. That last, BTW, seems to me to be the least traditional version - IIRC, it appears much later than the others, but that could be due to a combination of selective reading and selective memory. SWM wrote: Relax wrote:You missed the "standard" part of those quotes. In other words it would be very unusual for a tractor to be present without a pressor. No, I did not miss the "standard" part of the quotes--what it actually says is "standard industrial". So that does not resolve the issue I noted. It should also be mentioned that it is science fiction trope that a "tractor" can hold/move an object at will. This has defined how a "tractor" works throughout science fiction lore. I see no reason not to disabuse this trope definition. If a tractor can move/hold an object, this by definition means it has push/pull ability. I agree that this is the traditional understanding of "tractor beams" in science fiction. I even agree that it is logical that they do have this capability. I myself am fairly certain that the tractors holding pods and LACs are both pressers and tractors. I also acknowledge that merely "pulling" will not hold an object in place to the side of the ship while the ship accelerates. However, "pushing" does not help, either. Rather, it would have to "pull" sideways. It require more than merely causing a force (positive or negative) along the line of the beam; it has to have a force component perpendicular to the beam as well. All I am saying is that we already knew about these citations in the previous discussion, and they did not answer people's desire for actual evidence rather than logic.
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It may be your tradition, but it certainly isn't mine

There's a reason why both terms have been in use since long before I could read [I read the stories later, of course], and if you look you'll find at least 3 variations on the 'tradition': only tractors - since gravity can only pull things together, of course; tractors & pressors as distinct, non-interchangable, devices that _only_ move an object, more often than not accelerating it; and devices, generally called tractors, although Smith used the term tractor zone for this as a distinct variant from the other 2, that holds something in a fixed position WRT the ship or whatever. That last, BTW, seems to me to be the least traditional version - IIRC, it appears much later than the others, but that could be due to a combination of selective reading and selective memory.

SWM wrote:
Relax wrote:You missed the "standard" part of those quotes. In other words it would be very unusual for a tractor to be present without a pressor.

No, I did not miss the "standard" part of the quotes--what it actually says is "standard industrial". So that does not resolve the issue I noted.

It should also be mentioned that it is science fiction trope that a "tractor" can hold/move an object at will. This has defined how a "tractor" works throughout science fiction lore. I see no reason not to disabuse this trope definition. If a tractor can move/hold an object, this by definition means it has push/pull ability.

I agree that this is the traditional understanding of "tractor beams" in science fiction. I even agree that it is logical that they do have this capability. I myself am fairly certain that the tractors holding pods and LACs are both pressers and tractors.

I also acknowledge that merely "pulling" will not hold an object in place to the side of the ship while the ship accelerates. However, "pushing" does not help, either. Rather, it would have to "pull" sideways. It require more than merely causing a force (positive or negative) along the line of the beam; it has to have a force component perpendicular to the beam as well.

All I am saying is that we already knew about these citations in the previous discussion, and they did not answer people's desire for actual evidence rather than logic.

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Presser/Tractor