Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 28 guests

Dual Sidewalls

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.
Re: Dual Sidewalls
Post by SWM   » Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:08 am

SWM
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 5928
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:00 pm
Location: U.S. east coast

Somtaaw wrote:
SWM wrote:I have generally been a skeptic of the idea. But it gained some credibility when the Anderman Empire used LAC wedges to protect a ship from a mine field. In that case, the ship and LACs stopped accelerating, and the LACs in front of the ship turned sideways to block the throat of the ship with their wedges. So it worked around the problems outlined above.



I personally think that tactic was partially how Manticore invented the bow-wall concept. I believe it was Herzog von Rabenstrange who had developed the LAC defence against minefields, and he'd published it in an Andermani naval manual?

And iirc, the Andermani having done their little minefield trick actually happened (in the book) shortly after Honor's return from Hades? That timing works out to about the time the Shrike-B's and Ferrets were in development.

If he did publish it, then Manticoran informants would have found it, and passed it along. Due to it being tactical information, it would be passed to the WMD, which would have led to it being handed to Sonja Hemphill, and ta-da.... new bow-wall technology.


.... or at least that's more or less how I figure it happened 8-)

No, the Andermani came up with that trick after Manticore developed the bow sidewall. Bow sidewalls existed on the very first modern Manticoran LACs, and were deployed while Honor was at Hades. The buckler shield was also invented before Honor got back from Hades. It was Manticore's new uses for LACs that got the Andermani thinking about how to use them defensively.
--------------------------------------------
Librarian: The Original Search Engine
Top
Re: Dual Sidewalls
Post by SWM   » Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:14 am

SWM
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 5928
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:00 pm
Location: U.S. east coast

Erls wrote: :P
Thank you for this information. But, I don't believe any of this would refute what I suggested.

In recap, I'm not suggesting a drone sidewall (or wedge) that makes its parent ship impervious to fire. Nor am I suggesting a drone sidewall that can offer gun ports or anything of that kind. What I am suggesting is that eventually the RMN will find broadside missile tubes almost a waste of space due to the capacity of its SD(P) design, and that the space that used to be missile tubes could be better used for CM launch tubes and Laser Clusters.

With that in mind, if a grouping of drones were able to create a minimal sidewall outside of a laserheads detonation point around the most likely avenue of approach, that could allow a ships dedicated anti-Missile weapons to become more effective alone the other avenues.

Basically, a small throw-a-way line of drone sidewalls in the 'best' line of attack for missiles that will disrupt them would allow the anti-Missile weapons to focus more heavily on everything else, leading to more kills on those missiles while those on the 'best' line of attack are wasted on the drone sidewalls for even the first couple barrages.

The point isn't to make the ship impervious to missile fire. The object would simply be to allow it to survive longer by allowing it to better target and defeat the first couple barrages it faces.

If each SD(P) could face even 2 more massed missiles attacks before being overwhelmed that would drastically increase both the offensive firepower and the likelihood of ships surviving a long range missile combat scenario. Just remember the first battle of Manticore- If Kuzak had been able to get each SD Squad to survive even 1 more blow that would have allowed McKeon to take out at least 2 or 3 more Haven SDs with Apollo missiles, maybe even more!

There is no most likely avenue of approach. Missiles maneuver tens of thousands of kilometers off the straight-line vector to the enemy. Often they will approach from an angle above or below the wedge and take a shot as they pass. Missiles do not take the "most likely avenue of approach" because that makes it too easy for point defense to pick them off.
--------------------------------------------
Librarian: The Original Search Engine
Top
Re: Dual Sidewalls
Post by Theemile   » Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:09 am

Theemile
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 5242
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 5:50 pm
Location: All over the Place - Now Serving Dublin, OH

Erls wrote:<snip>

... What I am suggesting is that eventually the RMN will find broadside missile tubes almost a waste of space due to the capacity of its SD(P) design, and that the space that used to be missile tubes could be better used for CM launch tubes and Laser Clusters.
<snip>


Actually, this is exactly what happened in the 2nd generation Manticorian podnaught designs. Neither the Invictus nor Agamemnon designs have broadside (or chase) missile tubes. This was partially to maximize the pod bay and to optimize broadside space. for the KH module, more fire control and defensive systems.

However, The 2nd Generation Grayson podnaught design (the Harrington II) retained some broadside tubes. they recognized that the downside of a pod launch is the inability to tweak the ECM loadout “on the fly”. Experience taught that certain opponents required different ECM loads – or varying ECM loads to overcome and confuse firecontrol, and broadside tubes gave the ability to customize the ECM loadouts with every launch. In addition, it allows for a light missile capability after the pods wear out – or a smaller missile response than a pod launch could offer.

David’s glimpse of the intended 3rd generation podnaught, the Medusa B, shows that Tubes will be reappearing in later Manticorian SD designs – probably for the same reasons the Graysons already found. http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/entry/Harrington/81/1
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
Top

Return to Honorverse