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Langhorne survived Kau-yung's attack.

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Re: Langhorne survived Kau-yung's attack.
Post by SWM   » Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:08 am

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Keith_w wrote:I am rereading HFAF and on pages 347-347, when Archbishop Maikel is sharing the news that the Inquisition has taken Thirsk's prisoners and is moving them to Zion, he quotes from the Book of Chihiro, Chapter 5, verses 10-14: "Then the Archangel Langhorne stood upon Mount Heilbronn, looking down upon the Field of Sabana, where so many had fallen opposing evil, and his eyes were wet with tears." (and more)

This seems to be a reference to the War of the Fallen. Since the Book of Chihiro wasn't added until after the war, it seems to me that this indicates 1 of 2 things:

1. Chihiro wasn't above lying about what happened in order to write a "good" story
or
2. Langhorne did survive Kau-yung's attack

Personally I lean towards the 1st, because I don't think that Kau-yung would have triggered the nuke unless he was certain of getting his target, however, I suppose that it is possible that TF tech included force fields which could have been used to protect Langhorne from the blast effects.

Or:
3) Chihiro or one of the other Archangels projected a hologram of Langhorne at Mount Heilbronn. David has told us that they did that sometimes after Pei killed Langhorne.
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*** Spoiler Warning ***Re: Langhorne survived Kau-yung's att
Post by Keith_w   » Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:12 pm

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SWM wrote:
Keith_w wrote:I am rereading HFAF and on pages 347-347, when Archbishop Maikel is sharing the news that the Inquisition has taken Thirsk's prisoners and is moving them to Zion, he quotes from the Book of Chihiro, Chapter 5, verses 10-14: "Then the Archangel Langhorne stood upon Mount Heilbronn, looking down upon the Field of Sabana, where so many had fallen opposing evil, and his eyes were wet with tears." (and more)

This seems to be a reference to the War of the Fallen. Since the Book of Chihiro wasn't added until after the war, it seems to me that this indicates 1 of 2 things:

1. Chihiro wasn't above lying about what happened in order to write a "good" story
or
2. Langhorne did survive Kau-yung's attack

Personally I lean towards the 1st, because I don't think that Kau-yung would have triggered the nuke unless he was certain of getting his target, however, I suppose that it is possible that TF tech included force fields which could have been used to protect Langhorne from the blast effects.

Or:
3) Chihiro or one of the other Archangels projected a hologram of Langhorne at Mount Heilbronn. David has told us that they did that sometimes after Pei killed Langhorne.


but how true are the stories of the War against the Fallen in the testimonies and the Writ? Certainly the tale of Kohdy seems to contradict the general warfare image that the quote appears reference, if it is taken literally, rather a figurative reference to the loss of life over the entire war. Kohdy's war seems to be more oriented to counter espionage against the fallen.
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Re: Langhorne survived Kau-yung's attack.
Post by Sounour   » Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:01 pm

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wingfield wrote:
Keith_w wrote:
Personally I lean towards the 1st, because I don't think that Kau-yung would have triggered the nuke unless he was certain of getting his target, however, I suppose that it is possible that TF tech included force fields which could have been used to protect Langhorne from the blast effects.


Which would presume that Langhorne had some notion that Kau-Yung was coming along to nuke him, which I can't quite make the leap to accept, at least just yet.



It could also presume Langhorne was sufficiently paranoid to have it routinely activated.

But I also think that Langhorne died. And the War of Fallen was not only against the followers of Shan-Wei, but also a war of succession for the throne of Langhorne, where every faction of "angels" used Holograms and other stuff for propaganda reasons.
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Re: Langhorne survived Kau-yung's attack.
Post by Joat42   » Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:45 pm

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SWM wrote:
Keith_w wrote:I am rereading HFAF and on pages 347-347, when Archbishop Maikel is sharing the news that the Inquisition has taken Thirsk's prisoners and is moving them to Zion, he quotes from the Book of Chihiro, Chapter 5, verses 10-14: "Then the Archangel Langhorne stood upon Mount Heilbronn, looking down upon the Field of Sabana, where so many had fallen opposing evil, and his eyes were wet with tears." (and more)

This seems to be a reference to the War of the Fallen. Since the Book of Chihiro wasn't added until after the war, it seems to me that this indicates 1 of 2 things:

1. Chihiro wasn't above lying about what happened in order to write a "good" story
or
2. Langhorne did survive Kau-yung's attack

Personally I lean towards the 1st, because I don't think that Kau-yung would have triggered the nuke unless he was certain of getting his target, however, I suppose that it is possible that TF tech included force fields which could have been used to protect Langhorne from the blast effects.

Or:
3) Chihiro or one of the other Archangels projected a hologram of Langhorne at Mount Heilbronn. David has told us that they did that sometimes after Pei killed Langhorne.

Or:
4) It's a complete fabrication.

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Re: Langhorne survived Kau-yung's attack.
Post by SWM   » Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:32 am

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Joat42 wrote:Or:
4) It's a complete fabrication.

I think that's just a restatement of:

1. Chihiro wasn't above lying about what happened in order to write a "good" story
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Re: Langhorne survived Kau-yung's attack.
Post by SWM   » Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:33 am

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Please be careful of unmarked spoilers.
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Re: Langhorne survived Kau-yung's attack.
Post by Keith_w   » Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:32 pm

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SWM wrote:Please be careful of unmarked spoilers.

To what are you referring? I didn't think that quoting from an already published work counted as a spoiler.
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Re: Langhorne survived Kau-yung's attack.
Post by Hildum   » Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:39 pm

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Brigade XO wrote:
Must have been a realy good vest pocket nuke if they were able to rebuild the temple within just a couple of years and not have much challange with the radiation from the divice.
One would think that having a nuclear bomb go off within a headquarters building should play havoc with the site for a while. All that messy radiation. How did they deal with the nice crater if it was an on ground or underground blast? How much really important equipment did they lose, I mean, just how small can you make a nuclear explosion?


You can make a nuclear explosion as small as one atom if you like - particle accelerators do this all the time. That is the limit.

Nuclear weapons can be tuned to yield a lot of different things, depending on what you are trying to do. Better designs tend to have less fallout, and there are designs that basically only generate neutrons to kill things, but leave infrastructure intact so you can take over facilities without having to clear a lot of debris.

As for the left over radiation, remember what causes high radioactivity is short half life. So most of the highly radioactive material would have been gone by the time the temple was actually built, about 60 years after the explosion (note that Hiroshima and Nagasaki are still major cities, even though the weapons were not particularly clean - and actually generated a lot more radiation than had initially been believed as shown by subsequent studies). Today, it requires very specialized equipment to detect the radiation left over from the bombing, and the levels are far less than natural background radioactivity.

While there might be a few deaths attributable to radiation in those cities, the deaths due to smoking induced cancer swamp any possible measurement of weapon induced deaths. To put it another way, studies of the survivors of the bombings show that a person had to be exposed to the actual explosions to have a detectable increase in cancer deaths. Persons moving into the cities later who were not exposed to the actual explosions have no detectable increase in cancers.

In the context of the Safehold stories, since the area was basically only inhabited by the archangels, there would be no effects on the general population by the time the temple was actually built.

The safety standards for radiation were largely set on the experience of the results of attacks on the two cities; the fact that the weapons actually produced far more radiation than originally estimated in the 1940s means the safety standards are generally far more conservative than necessary to provide the level of protection designed in the standards. In other words, radiation exposure is not as dangerous as people generally think it is. Adding to this is the politicization of setting of these types of standards to the lowest detectable amounts, not the amounts that actually would be potentially dangerous.
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Re: Langhorne survived Kau-yung's attack.
Post by SWM   » Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:42 pm

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Keith_w wrote:
SWM wrote:Please be careful of unmarked spoilers.

To what are you referring? I didn't think that quoting from an already published work counted as a spoiler.

I'm talking about references to the activities of a historical seijin.
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Re: Langhorne survived Kau-yung's attack.
Post by Keith_w   » Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:57 am

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SWM wrote: quote="Keith_w" quote="SWM" Please be careful of unmarked spoilers./quote
To what are you referring? I didn't think that quoting from an already published work counted as a spoiler.
/quote
I'm talking about references to the activities of a historical seijin.


Right - Sorry, thoughtless of me.
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