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Naval Engagements

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Naval Engagements
Post by Keith_w   » Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:54 pm

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I've been wondering for a while why nobody is using chain or bar shot to disable enemy rigging.
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Re: Naval Engagements
Post by jgnfld   » Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:03 am

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Keith_w wrote:I've been wondering for a while why nobody is using chain or bar shot to disable enemy rigging.

Well, the galleon age on Charis is tremendously compressed. Such shot was never needed before and soon it will be useless to all parties again.
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Re: Naval Engagements
Post by Keith_w   » Mon Jun 15, 2015 6:53 am

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jgnfld wrote:
Keith_w wrote:I've been wondering for a while why nobody is using chain or bar shot to disable enemy rigging.

Well, the galleon age on Charis is tremendously compressed. Such shot was never needed before and soon it will be useless to all parties again.


True enough on Charis's side and they know it, but the temple side doesn't know that yet and Thirsk is certainly clever enough to think of ways to slow down Charisian galleons by bringing down their rigging so that his numbers can overwhelm them.
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A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
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Re: Naval Engagements
Post by SWM   » Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:16 am

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Keith_w wrote:True enough on Charis's side and they know it, but the temple side doesn't know that yet and Thirsk is certainly clever enough to think of ways to slow down Charisian galleons by bringing down their rigging so that his numbers can overwhelm them.

Thirsk never had a chance to come up with it before Charis started introducing even better stuff that Thirsk had to defeat.
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Re: Naval Engagements
Post by Dilandu   » Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:33 am

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They have shells. They didn't need such primitive weapon. Shells are more than capable of immobilizing the sail warships, by making impossible all sailwork.
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Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

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Re: Naval Engagements
Post by captinjoehenry   » Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:10 pm

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Dilandu wrote:They have shells. They didn't need such primitive weapon. Shells are more than capable of immobilizing the sail warships, by making impossible all sailwork.


well thats true when your ship is a burning exploding wreak the worry about your sails is a moot point. And if you can get the timing right you just shoot shells at the rigging which would work much better than chain shot or bar shot.
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Re: Naval Engagements
Post by Dilandu   » Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:45 pm

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captinjoehenry wrote:
well thats true when your ship is a burning exploding wreak the worry about your sails is a moot point. And if you can get the timing right you just shoot shells at the rigging which would work much better than chain shot or bar shot.


More than that; the blast effect from the shells is very good against masts and rigging, and the fragments would whipe all sailors from the decks.

On the Earth, admirals understood this perfectly, and as soon as they were able to put reliable enough screw drive on the ships, they started to do so.

On the Safehold... well, i mentioned this before. :)
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Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: Naval Engagements
Post by jtg452   » Mon Jun 15, 2015 1:20 pm

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Bar and chain shot are designed to disable enemy ships. That makes them easier to board and capture.

The Charisans don't want or need to disable enemy ships. They want to destroy them because their capture is of no benefit. The ships themselves are inferior in a multitude of ways and their crews would be a security risk to hold, a strain on manpower to guard, AND a strain on the economy to feed, clothe and shelter.

The most effective way to destroy a wooden ship- or more accurately, it's crew- is to aim 'between the wind and the water' and put holes in the hull. With the advent of the exploding shell, it is even quicker.
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Re: Naval Engagements
Post by Sounour   » Mon Jun 15, 2015 4:43 pm

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Keith_w wrote:I've been wondering for a while why nobody is using chain or bar shot to disable enemy rigging.


They have chain shot... but I can't remember if it's been used anywhere.

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OCTOBER,YEAR OF GOD 894
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That sounded like an awful lot, Merlin reflected, but it wasn’t really, given the normal ammunition allotments of ICN galleons. The “establishment” was forty rounds of round shot, ten rounds of grapeshot, and five rounds of chain shot per gun. That was almost three thousand rounds for a single fifty- four- gun galleon. Replacing just the round shot in her shot lockers on a one- for- one basis would require the next best thing to twenty- two hundred shells.
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Re: Naval Engagements
Post by Keith_w   » Mon Jun 15, 2015 5:35 pm

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jtg452 wrote:Bar and chain shot are designed to disable enemy ships. That makes them easier to board and capture.

The Charisans don't want or need to disable enemy ships. They want to destroy them because their capture is of no benefit. The ships themselves are inferior in a multitude of ways and their crews would be a security risk to hold, a strain on manpower to guard, AND a strain on the economy to feed, clothe and shelter.

The most effective way to destroy a wooden ship- or more accurately, it's crew- is to aim 'between the wind and the water' and put holes in the hull. With the advent of the exploding shell, it is even quicker.


Actually, they did. In AMF. they captured one of Thirsk's ships while driving off 4 more and sailed it home.
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A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
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