Tenshinai wrote:n7axw wrote:Hi all,
This is a question for those more knowledgable than us non-military types...
We know from textev that the entire ICA is trained to march in winter conditions, but that a smaller part was actually trained to fight in those conditions.
What's the difference? What would be the consequence for untrained portion of BGV's army if they got caught and had to fight in winter conditions anyway?
Don
Marching in winter means being able to operate outdoors at all during winter, and knowing how to move along winter roads and paths, or making them if needed, having the ability to make camps, being able to handle bad weather on at least a basic level, all without causing massive attrition losses.
Being able to fight in winter conditions is very different. Tactical mobility in heavy snow is radically different, you have to know how to notice what tracks and trails are real or false, what were used 2 hours ago and what was made 2 weeks ago, you have to have the ability to move through the terrain even if there´s a few meters of snow in the way, preferably without leaving easy to follow tracks...
You have to be able to fight without tiring yourself out too much, or let yourself get too sweaty, because if that happens chances are that the cold will kill you rather than the enemy.
You have to know how your weapons and gear handles the weather, what extra maintenance you have to do to keep it functional(often a lot).
You need to handle getting access to water when you actually need it.
Being able to handle bad weather on a small unit scale or even individually(which is radically different from handling it as part of a regiment or something similarly big), at any time. And fighting during a snowstorm is seriously nasty, as the battle at Narva shows off very well.It sounds like another way to put the distinction is between things you learned once, some time ago, say in basic training, and haven't had to practice or perfect since, versus skills you DO use and keep fresh, particularly with an eye toward needing at any time.
The troops trained once to march and maybe fight in winter conditions can later be counted on to be able to march there; the ones trained well and kept trained to march and fight in winter conditions, by contrast, can be counted on to be able to march and fight effectively under those conditions.
Barely any country in the world now or before trained their troops for winter combat on a regular basis. Mountain troops, some jaegers and rangers did/do, but sometimes not even those.
I really appreciated the specificity of this post. In fact all of the posts have been helpful.
I can see the difference between winter fighting and marching now and understand better why BGV's vanguard would need to be trained for winter fighting, given the story we have.
I would add though that it appears to me that the troops trained to march in winter conditions would also be able to fight in those conditions. However the menu of tactical options available to these units would be a lot more severely limited than it would be for those trained in winter warfare.
Would that be an accurate portrayal of the difference?
Don