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Civilian transports in a high threat enviroment

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Re: Civilian transports in a high threat enviroment
Post by stewart   » Sun Jun 14, 2015 7:42 pm

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BobfromSydney wrote:Remember the smart way of operating for corporations in a democracy - privatise profits and nationalise expenses.

Why spend money defending your own ship when your government can do it for you? Travel as part of convoys and 'hitch rides' with warships whenever and wherever you can.

Where you might need escort to particular locations it is always cheaper to bribe [make legal and legitimate contributions to] a politician or official to ensure that your shipping is a matter of 'economic security'. The sovereignty, safety and rights of ships flying the national flag, or carrying crew/passengers [or cargo] of a particular nation must be defended!

Defend commerce shipping from pirates! That's what the navy is for. Just ask Janacek.



---------------

That is assuming that the politician is an "honest" politician -- once bought they stay bought...

-- Stewart
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Re: Civilian transports in a high threat enviroment
Post by saber964   » Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:01 pm

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Erls wrote:
BobfromSydney wrote:Remember the smart way of operating for corporations in a democracy - privatise profits and nationalise expenses.

[snip]

Defend commerce shipping from pirates! That's what the navy is for. Just ask Janacek.


Heck, prior to King Roger's buildup in House of Steel the primary purpose of the RMN was commerce protection in the eyes of many.

If the Sollies actually do start attempting to raid GA shipping I can very easy see the official response to be to just run monthly or whatever convoys of ships. Work with the major shipping cartel's to set up a convoy schedule that hits all the important stops with the ability for ships to head off for individual stops and meet back up at the next 'gathering' area.

Have a few Saganami-Cs with a squad of Roland's and they'll be able to chew up any Solly formation below the wall that isn't absolutely massive in size (RMN runs out of missiles before blasting everything apart).



The GA has a tremendous advantage in the distances involved. IIRC it is 5.5 T-months without using the MWJ to go from Terra to Manticore and it was something like 2-2.5 T-months from New Tasmania. How many T-months of travel is it to Haven or Silesia. Can you say logistical shoestring. Also the SLN has no support infrastructure any where close no AEs, no ARs, no ADs, etc. Remember Tourville's musings about his return to Haven in the aftermath of second Marsh. IIRC he spent 4 plus months getting home, watching wounded die of their injuries, making repairs out of shipboard resources.
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Re: Civilian transports in a high threat enviroment
Post by Tenshinai   » Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:10 pm

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svenhauke wrote:considering the current state of politics in the honorverse

i would have a very low expectation for a civil transport to survive

sln attacks, alliance attacks, man attacks comming up, pirates

so if i where a transport tycoon with a vision, id want

armed merchants capable of defending against enemys

if i was a solarian transport tycoon, id try to go to the andermani empire

if i was an alliance tycoon

id build a 8 million ton ship

with battle cruiser outer armor 30-40 cm tubes plus close in defense clusters about 12 at least havenite cemiterre Lacs and 500 pods of multidrive missiles, again at least havenite hardware 12 side missile tubes and 6+ front and a secondary set of battleship armor to defend my passengers and vitals

so long i got 4 million ton cargo capacity left i could make money ensuring the safety of my passengers and cargo in the great interstelar war

high value cargo only


It is nearly always not a good idea to combine a merchant vessel with a fighting ship.

And i can just about guarantee you wont get 4Mt of cargo into that ship. And with all that military gear, it´s gonna be hellishly expensive in maintenance and crew costs.

Get a pair of heavy/battle cruisers with pods on the hull, Andermani style or something like that as escorts instead and you MIGHT make a profit.

The cargo ships should have defenses, possibly some minimal offensive ability, like a few tractored on missile pods, but even that will vastly increase the costs for firecontrol and may very well not be worth it.
Some heavy armour for a cargoship is definitely a decent idea though, it´s cheap, dont need maintenance and although not exactly effective, it will raise chances to survive a fair lot.

Seriously, you want pod rails AND LACs? That´s going to play merry hell with size limits just by itself.
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Re: Civilian transports in a high threat enviroment
Post by Theemile   » Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:32 pm

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Tenshinai wrote:
svenhauke wrote:<snip>

with battle cruiser outer armor 30-40 cm tubes plus close in defense clusters about 12 at least havenite cemiterre Lacs and 500 pods of multidrive missiles, again at least havenite hardware 12 side missile tubes and 6+ front and a secondary set of battleship armor to defend my passengers and vitals

so long i got 4 million ton cargo capacity left i could make money ensuring the safety of my passengers and cargo in the great interstelar war

high value cargo only


<snip>
Seriously, you want pod rails AND LACs? That´s going to play merry hell with size limits just by itself.


I'm not certain he realizes that RHN Sovereign of Space SD(p)s which mass >8.5 MTons can't carry 500 Havenite MDM pods, and no Havenite SD has tubes that fire Havenite MDMs (they are just so Big!). The original Medusas only carried 492 (much smaller) RMN pods and the Wayfarer class only carried 180 pods.

Thrown in the LACs, and the armor and 4 MTons of cargo, and you're looking at a 15-20MTon ship. This is a no-go from the start, There is no profit to be found running an SD with cargo capacity.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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