The worst case Scenario! Manticore has Fallen!

I don't think the story would end there. I think the RMN and some of the merchant fleet would withdraw, regroup and carry on the fight.

Also, think of the fun of occupying Sphinx and Gryphon. "I thought you understood the risks, Hexapumas, Peak Bears and good luck collecting the guns."

how long would it take the SLMC to pacify what is left of Manticore?

Thoughts?

kenl511 wrote:I don't think the story would end there. I think the RMN and some of the merchant fleet would withdraw, regroup and carry on the fight.

Also, think of the fun of occupying Sphinx and Gryphon. "I thought you understood the risks, Hexapumas, Peak Bears and good luck collecting the guns."

how long would it take the SLMC to pacify what is left of Manticore?

Thoughts?

The SLMC wouldn't have time to "pacify" the Manticore system, because the RMN - most of whom, you'll note, are scattered about the Empire and not parked in the system itself, including an extremely sizeable contingent in Talbott - would place a quick call (or courier boat, take your pick) to their very good friends the Republic of Haven Navy, which would come haring over, help them kick the everloving crap out of whatever SLN forces are there, and take the system right back again.

Assuming the GSN doesn't get there first, of course.

Yes, the Manticore system falling to the League would be devastating - for as long as the League had it, which wouldn't be long. Remember WWII, when Britain was still an empire? If the Isles had fallen, the Empire would have regrouped and continued the fight from Canada, India, Australia, and Africa. Manticore's situation is very much the same. Twenty years ago, the system falling would have been a major disaster and possibly the end of the kingdom. Today, it's a major setback at worst.

My thinking is what kind of stories there would be as the Grand Alliance rallied and liberated the Sol system from Solly control.

Also, think of a Solly CO looking across the ruined landscape and reporting, "Objective Alamo Secured, another victory like this and we're toast."

roseandheather wrote:

kenl511 wrote:I don't think the story would end there. I think the RMN and some of the merchant fleet would withdraw, regroup and carry on the fight.

Also, think of the fun of occupying Sphinx and Gryphon. "I thought you understood the risks, Hexapumas, Peak Bears and good luck collecting the guns."

how long would it take the SLMC to pacify what is left of Manticore?

Thoughts?

The SLMC wouldn't have time to "pacify" the Manticore system, because the RMN - most of whom, you'll note, are scattered about the Empire and not parked in the system itself, including an extremely sizeable contingent in Talbott - would place a quick call (or courier boat, take your pick) to their very good friends the Republic of Haven Navy, which would come haring over, help them kick the everloving crap out of whatever SLN forces are there, and take the system right back again.

Assuming the GSN doesn't get there first, of course.

Yes, the Manticore system falling to the League would be devastating - for as long as the League had it, which wouldn't be long. Remember WWII, when Britain was still an empire? If the Isles had fallen, the Empire would have regrouped and continued the fight from Canada, India, Australia, and Africa. Manticore's situation is very much the same. Twenty years ago, the system falling would have been a major disaster and possibly the end of the kingdom. Today, it's a major setback at worst.

I'm reminded of the fall of France in WWII. I suppose Sheridan Wallace or whoever's running the Progressive Party nowadays may lead, temporarily, a "Vichy Manticore" under OFS supervision. But you can count on Gryphon and Sphinxian Maquis, and, on Manticore, underground guerrillas led by Cathy Montaigne making life hard on the Gendarmerie.

Elsewhere, Free Manticore will strike back from its bastions in the Talbott Quadrant and Manticoran Silesia, with support from friends beyond just about every terminus. The De Gaulle role of the piece will be split among Admirals Sarnow, Khumalo, and Gold Peak with calls for the liberation of Manticore ringing forth from Dame Estelle Matsuko.

Granted, the point people for liberating Manticore will surely be Grayson and Haven, but the entire periphery of the League will burn til Manticore is free once more!

JeffEngel wrote:

roseandheather wrote:
The SLMC wouldn't have time to "pacify" the Manticore system, because the RMN - most of whom, you'll note, are scattered about the Empire and not parked in the system itself, including an extremely sizeable contingent in Talbott - would place a quick call (or courier boat, take your pick) to their very good friends the Republic of Haven Navy, which would come haring over, help them kick the everloving crap out of whatever SLN forces are there, and take the system right back again.

Assuming the GSN doesn't get there first, of course.

Yes, the Manticore system falling to the League would be devastating - for as long as the League had it, which wouldn't be long. Remember WWII, when Britain was still an empire? If the Isles had fallen, the Empire would have regrouped and continued the fight from Canada, India, Australia, and Africa. Manticore's situation is very much the same. Twenty years ago, the system falling would have been a major disaster and possibly the end of the kingdom. Today, it's a major setback at worst.

I'm reminded of the fall of France in WWII. I suppose Sheridan Wallace or whoever's running the Progressive Party nowadays may lead, temporarily, a "Vichy Manticore" under OFS supervision. But you can count on Gryphon and Sphinxian Maquis, and, on Manticore, underground guerrillas led by Cathy Montaigne making life hard on the Gendarmerie.

Elsewhere, Free Manticore will strike back from its bastions in the Talbott Quadrant and Manticoran Silesia, with support from friends beyond just about every terminus. The De Gaulle role of the piece will be split among Admirals Sarnow, Khumalo, and Gold Peak with calls for the liberation of Manticore ringing forth from Dame Estelle Matsuko.

Granted, the point people for liberating Manticore will surely be Grayson and Haven, but the entire periphery of the League will burn til Manticore is free once more!

...I'd read that novel.

I for can imagine that lots of rich folks in the Manticore system and many many not so rich are or have spent a great deal of time and money creating ultimate disaster "bolt holes". Or in other words ... "we know we are paranoid ... the question is are we paranoid enough?"

This would certainly include the Manti system government. Curious as to what secret general fleet orders exist covering that ultimate disaster. You know how navies are ... they love to have detailed plans for just about everything. Excellent subject and thank you. HB of CJ (old coot)

In 6 months the SL has full up fusion powered MDMs in production on a few dozen planets, plus has full blueprints on all RMN ships, LACS, drones and complete design specs on RMN seekers, jammers, countermeasures, fire control systems and whatever they have on the RHN.

Things are going to get very, very ugly.

A couple thoughts:

1- I doubt the Sollies will care at all about "occupying" Manticore, Gryphon, or Sphinx. They will take hostages and demand scientists/political leaders/naval officers/experienced yard dogs/etc give themselves up. Once they get the people they want, they will just devastate the planets. Mass kinetic and nuclear strikes to eradicate the populations. "Eridani Edict? What's that? Manticore did X, Y, and Z and thus this isn't a violation. Move along, nothing to see here." That is how the Mandarins would want it played.

2- If the binary system falls, I could see the Anderman's joining up with Haven (and Grayson), and anyone else they can convince. Beowulf, Erewhon, Torch, etc... Everyone who knows how corrupt the league is will realize that the leader of the anti-Solly faction just took it on the chin, and that if the Sollies can consolidate their new power the rest of them won't be long.

3- I could see the Graysons (especially if Honor dies in defense) sending everything they have straight at Sol with the mission to permanently erase every living bureaucrat from the galaxy. The thought being, once we tear the head of this wretched body all of its limbs are going to start flailing all over the place and Haven can retake the Wormhole junction.

Just a few possibilities..

kzt wrote:In 6 months the SL has full up fusion powered MDMs in production on a few dozen planets, plus has full blueprints on all RMN ships, LACS, drones and complete design specs on RMN seekers, jammers, countermeasures, fire control systems and whatever they have on the RHN.

Things are going to get very, very ugly.

That assumes the RMN doesn't pull a Higgins and nukes everything before they lose the system. And takes Admiralty House and Saganami Island out with kinetic impactors.

In any case, falling to the League isn't the worst possible scenario. Falling to the RF is.

roseandheather wrote:
...I'd read that novel.

And now we have the basis for an 'alternate' timeline mini-series. All the 'what-ifs' of the Honorverse, bundled into mini-books.


-8th Fleet either wasn't there for the Battle of Manticore, or was the first to punch through and gets wrecked instead of 3rd Fleet.
-Filareta successfully completed Operation Raging Justice and occupies Manticore

What other what-if mini stories can we think up, to add to the list