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Speculating on Sandaria; what happens next (spoiler)

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Re: Speculating on Sandaria; what happens next (spoiler)
Post by Tonto Silerheels   » Fri Jun 05, 2015 2:59 pm

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Morden wrote:

it is stated quite plainly that Nimue was a tightly held secret and as few people as possible were to know.

That's a valid complaint. I worked around it by saying that one of the guys who knew about her and was scheduled to die the next day didn't actually die. Still yet, he would have to wonder whether having her fight during the war against the fallen would increase their chances for winning against the Church of God Awaiting, or decrease them. Of course, sometimes when the vicissitudes of war are going against you, it's sometimes difficult to keep sight of those nuances.

It would have been a colossal risk to someone who had sacrificed her life in order to alter the history of Safehold at a safe(r) date.

That may not be true. Since she's in a PICA it might be difficult to torture a confession out of her. In fact, she might not even be aware of the original PICA waiting in the Mountains of Light. If she's not, then there's little that activating her during the WAtF could reveal.

Nimue would been have likely been unwilling to go back to sleep

Possible. Or it's possible that decades of atrocities and counter-atrocities drove her to the point of suicide. Alternatively, maybe my explanation of a second PICA allows for the possibility that it took an OBS strike to the head. Whatever the explanation, her being a PICA explains why a mere demon was able to defeat a Marine armed and unarmed combat instructor with fifteen years of experience.

everyone who knew about her PICA was suffering from a slight case of being rather erm dead during the war of the fallen.

We know that they were scheduled to be dead in the next day's explosion, and we know that the explosion happened. What we don't know if the dead part actually happened.

Only Proctor could have Purged Nimue's memory

No. Apparently purging a PICA's memory is a rather common occurrence.

~Tonto
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Re: Speculating on Sandaria; what happens next (spoiler)
Post by Morden   » Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:00 pm

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Tonto Silerheels wrote:Only Proctor could have Purged Nimue's memory

No. Apparently purging a PICA's memory is a rather common occurrence.

~Tonto


Purging it yes... but as Merlin and Owl discussed. without Proctor, purging Merlins memory core and then re-uploading the clone would put him/her back into 10 day mode. This is why he didnt follow up on that avenue because if it failed it would effectively kill him.
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Re: Speculating on Sandaria; what happens next (spoiler)
Post by NervousEnergy   » Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:29 pm

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jgnfld wrote:
Randomiser wrote:Obviously, Sandaria is feigning growing acceptance of the lies these demon servants of Shan Wei are telling her so she can get out of this execrable cave and back to civilisation where she can blow the whistle on them ...

A simple question using a verifier would take care of the worries. Of course they could accidentally neglect to think about doing this should that suit the author's purposes.

She could stay there for a while, reading and soaking in the history of the Terran Federation, then pass such a verifier interrogation because she fully believed everything that Nimue et. al. were telling her...

...but she'd also decided that Professor Emil Langhorn was *right* and that the human race was far better off existing perpetually in a pre-industrial state. :twisted:

Note that I don't think that's likely, but it would be a cruel twist. After all, quite a few other highly intelligent, educated men and women came to the same conclusion and supported the command staff.
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Re: Speculating on Sandaria; what happens next (spoiler)
Post by n7axw   » Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:01 pm

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NervousEnergy wrote:She could stay there for a while, reading and soaking in the history of the Terran Federation, then pass such a verifier interrogation because she fully believed everything that Nimue et. al. were telling her...

...but she'd also decided that Professor Emil Langhorn was *right* and that the human race was far better off existing perpetually in a pre-industrial state. :twisted:

Note that I don't think that's likely, but it would be a cruel twist. After all, quite a few other highly intelligent, educated men and women came to the same conclusion and supported the command staff.


A minor nit: Eric Langhorne, not Emil...

The point of using the verifier should the inner circle decide to go that route wouldn't be to establish Sandaria's beliefs so much as her current loyalties. That can be done by simply asking the right questions. Problem solved.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Speculating on Sandaria; what happens next (spoiler)
Post by wkernochan   » Sat Jun 06, 2015 4:34 pm

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n7axw wrote:
NervousEnergy wrote:She could stay there for a while, reading and soaking in the history of the Terran Federation, then pass such a verifier interrogation because she fully believed everything that Nimue et. al. were telling her...

...but she'd also decided that Professor Emil Langhorn was *right* and that the human race was far better off existing perpetually in a pre-industrial state. :twisted:

Note that I don't think that's likely, but it would be a cruel twist. After all, quite a few other highly intelligent, educated men and women came to the same conclusion and supported the command staff.


A minor nit: Eric Langhorne, not Emil...

The point of using the verifier should the inner circle decide to go that route wouldn't be to establish Sandaria's beliefs so much as her current loyalties. That can be done by simply asking the right questions. Problem solved.

Don

Wondering if this discussion misses a key point of Nahrmann's account. He says (a) Fallen had lots of hidden fabricators and (b) they could evade SNARC detection. Wouldn't some of these capabilities survive the active resistance of the Fallen, especially if the remainder had gone underground? And given the hints in Kohdy's journal, might it not be possible to find and recover some of these? Imagine duplicating SNARC-hiding modules and pairing them with all use of electricity. Better yet, imagine leaking this knowledge to Clyntahn but omitting the SNARC-hiding capabilities, allowing Clyntahn's inquisitors to be devastated by a kinetic strike en masse.
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Re: Speculating on Sandaria; what happens next (spoiler)
Post by n7axw   » Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:13 pm

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wkernochan wrote:Wondering if this discussion misses a key point of Nahrmann's account. He says (a) Fallen had lots of hidden fabricators and (b) they could evade SNARC detection. Wouldn't some of these capabilities survive the active resistance of the Fallen, especially if the remainder had gone underground? And given the hints in Kohdy's journal, might it not be possible to find and recover some of these? Imagine duplicating SNARC-hiding modules and pairing them with all use of electricity. Better yet, imagine leaking this knowledge to Clyntahn but omitting the SNARC-hiding capabilities, allowing Clyntahn's inquisitors to be devastated by a kinetic strike en masse.


Hi wkernochan,

Welcome to the forums. I hope you enjoy yourself. You are invited to belly up to the virtual bar and enjoy the virtual drink of your choice. It's on the house... :D

You are right. What implications that those fabricators have is a critical point. It has been discussed in the Snippet 25 thread, though not everything has neccessarily been said.

I started this one because after Sandaria's rather dramatic response to the truth leaves me intrigued as to how her situation will turn out.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Speculating on Sandaria; what happens next (spoiler)
Post by lyonheart   » Sun Jun 07, 2015 12:03 am

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Hi Ed Thomas,

Given her evident religious feelings, I suspect Olivia has emphasized investigating Earth's religions in her personal research with OWL for the roots of Langhorne's religion, which Merlin suggested or encouraged IIRC, to individually reassure her after she expressed some initial doubts.

Since she may have more time for such study, she may know more details than Maikel about Earth's religion since there's no textev that a bible, Koran, or the Talmud to name a few were among the federation books the brotherhood had in its legacy.

I suspect there were some, as well as comparative commentaries etc, to help explain Terran history and reassure the brother and sisterhoods that they weren't demon worshipers, but we have no details.

A thread on what kind of religious books among others that might have inspired the brother and sisterhood to develop their particular teachings regarding tolerance and patience etc, as opposed to CoGA diktats could be very illuminating, especially if RFC could add a few[!] insights.

L


EdThomas wrote:
lyonheart wrote:
Personally, I'd find a discussion including Olivia's new or reinforced religious perspectives due to her own research of OWL's data banks to be fascinating; NTM as the 'queen mother' of the royal inner circle, I think we should be hearing more from her, since her mature perspective could save some grief.


L


Hi Lyonheart,
I have an awful feeling that I've missed something here. Which new or reinforced religious perspectives might you be speaking of? :?:
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: Speculating on Sandaria; what happens next (spoiler)
Post by n7axw   » Sun Jun 07, 2015 1:18 am

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lyonheart wrote:Hi Ed Thomas,

Given her evident religious feelings, I suspect Olivia has emphasized investigating Earth's religions in her personal research with OWL for the roots of Langhorne's religion...


When she wasn't learning about colesteral, the dangers of sugar and a host of new ways to bug her husband about his taste for pasteries and sweets! :lol:

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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