GOD EXISTS

gcomeau; Thank you. So I can continue to use the usual typical statements; only not use the work Agnostic? It is a major comfort for me to be correct.

What word should I use? I am always endeavoring to use proper or nearly proper words. I do not know if there is a "God". What does that make me?

I love this forum. HB of CJ (old coot)

Howard T. Map-addict wrote:Cthia, you do realize, don't you,
that those are Christian teachings.

We Jews have different ideas about these subjects.
Very different!

I note that the quote from Ezekiel says what the Creator
will do Himself, not by an agent.

HTM

cthia wrote:That is one of the main differences between the Old and the New Testament. In my teachings, during the Old Testament, man was descendent from Adam and as a result of that, man had the 'inherent' excuse of being weak of the flesh. Just blame it on Adam. But with the New Testament comes a new covenant (contract).

Romans 8:2-4
…2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.…

cthia wrote:If interested, the books of Isaiah and Ezekiel contain these promises.

Ezekiel 36:26-27
26"Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27"I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances. 28"You will live in the land that I gave to your forefathers; so you will be My people, and I will be your God.…

Indeed. I do realize that they are Christian teachings.
I stated early on that I am a Christian.

I have been aware of the many very different teachings within various religions of even the Christian faith. And it shows, because I have been raised Baptist and migrated to Methodist and even Seventh Day Adventist at one point as an older teenager, I have been a member of a non-denominational church for quite some time now. Though the basic teachings are the same. I am not completely vetted on the differences outside of Christianity. But I am very interested Howard. Much so. That is essential to what this thread was created for, and I had hoped for that kind of exchange over forty pages of posts ago.

From within the Christian faith, the biggest objection of which I am aware - of the religions 'outside' - is that 'we' believe that JESUS is the Son of God. And that one must accept that JESUS died on the cross for our sins and that we must accept JESUS as our Lord and Savior.

1“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God ; believe also in me. 2My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4You know the way to the place where I am going.”

Jesus the Way to the Father

5Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”

6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

I know that some religions have very different views. I have always been interested. Would you care to share? I can promise you a decent exchange, as I am out to learn, not condemn. Condemnation is NOT what Christianity teaches.

1Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 5Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Regarding Ezekiel. Yes, it is what the Creator will do Himself. And that is exactly what happened. As seen from my faith. The way God achieved that was with his SON and the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit being God's own Spirit. Remember, God is a makeup of The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost. The Trinity. JESUS was GOD in the flesh.

I guess Ezekiel is as good a place to start as any. I assure you Howard, I am truly interested.

By the way, I hope it doesn't offend, but I have always thought of Jews as a very special and blessed group of people. I possess an almost awe toward you. Well, perhaps not 'almost.'

HB of CJ wrote:gcomeau; Thank you. So I can continue to use the usual typical statements; only not use the work Agnostic? It is a major comfort for me to be correct.

What word should I use? I am always endeavoring to use proper or nearly proper words. I do not know if there is a "God". What does that make me?

Ignorant of whether God exists or not. (As am I, although I have strong confidence in one direction on that one)

Which does not determine whether you are theist, atheist, gnostic or agnostic... none of which have a thing to do with what you *know*, only what you believe.

gcomeau; Thank you. Interesting distinction. HB of CJ (old coot)

I do have issues with those militant atheists who have crossed the line from not believing in gods to holding an affirmative belief that gods do not exist, and seem determined to prove that they can be just as obnoxious as any other breed of fanatic. They don't realize that their unbelief is just as much an act of faith as the most fervent bible-thumper's.

On the other hand, I am annoyed by the True Believers who claim that their gods must exist because it is impossible to prove that they don't, particularly when they can make up whatever attributes they want to explain their absolute lack of evidence.

On the gripping hand, they can't prove that the Vorlons don't exist. Does that mean we must all believe in the Vorlons?
--------------------
When someone does a foolish thing, you should say it is a foolish thing. They may still continue to do it, but at least the truth is where it needs to be.

God is a God of order and His Word is perfect. Just as we see patterns all around us in God's creation, His Word also contains incredible patterns demonstrating His design.

1. Panin And Bible Numerics

Ivan Panin was a Russian immigrant to America who was converted to Christianity when he discovered amazing numerical patterns in nature, which he believed could only be the work of the Creator. In 1890, Panin began to discover NUMERICAL SYSTEMS IN THE BIBLE, and went on to devote a large part of his life (40-50 years) to investigating the patterns he found.

God's Pattern In Nature

Modern natural sciences started "to explode" when scientists realised from the Bible that God is a God of order and that THIS ORDER IS TO BE FOUND IN HIS CREATION. Logically, it follows that if God has put order into all of His creation, how much more would He have put order into His Word, the Bible.

For instance, it must be mentioned that renowned scientists, such as ISAAC NEWTON who contributed so much to modern physics and mathematics, spent many years of their personal research on the subject of "Numerics in the Bible". Newton must have felt that he was "onto something".


The following is an excerpt from Bullinger's book: BULLINGER, E. W., "NUMBER IN SCRIPTURE", The Lamp Press, London, 1952.

PHYSIOLOGY offers a vast field for illustration, but here again the grand impress is seen to be the number SEVEN. The days of man's years are "Three-score years and ten" (7 x 10). In SEVEN years the whole structure of his body changes: and we are all familiar with "the seven ages of man".

The various periods of GESTATION (pregnancy) also are commonly a multiple of SEVEN, either of days or weeks.

With INSECTS the ova are hatched from SEVEN half-days (such as the wasp, bee, etc.); while with others it is SEVEN whole days. The majority of insects require from 14 (2 x 7) to 42 (6 x 7) days; the same applies to the larva state.

With ANIMALS the period of gestation of:

⦁ The mouse is 21 (3 x 7) days.
⦁ The hare and rat, 28 (4 x 7) days.
⦁ The cat, 56 (8 x 7) days.
⦁ The dog, 63 (9 x 7) days.
⦁ The lion, 98 (14 x 7) days.
⦁ The sheep, 147 (21 x 7) days.

With BIRDS, the incubation of:

⦁ The common hen is 21 (3 x 7) days.
⦁ The duck, 28 (4 x 7) days.

With the HUMAN species it is 280 days (or 40 x 7).
Moreover, man appears to be made on what we may call the SEVEN-day principle. In various diseases the SEVENTH, FOURTEENTH, and TWENTY-FIRST are critical days; and in others, SEVEN or 14 half-days. Man's pulse beats on the SEVEN-day principle... for six days out of the seven it beats faster in the morning than in the evening, while on the seventh day it beats slower. Thus the number SEVEN IS STAMPED UPON PHYSIOLOGY, and he is thus admonished, as man, to rest one day in seven. He cannot violate this law with impunity, for it is interwoven with his very being." [End quote].

During the time of the French revolution under Robespierre, a TEN-DAY WEEK was introduced, instead of the GOD ORDAINED SEVEN-DAY WEEK. Humans and animals could not cope with having only one rest day in ten. Men started to get ill and cattle collapsed in the fields. Soon, they had to go back to the seven-day week. It was clearly shown that God's pattern should not be violated.
Cells in the human body are constantly dying and being replaced. This works on a seven-year cycle, whereby over a period of seven years every cell in the body is replaced.

Many other incredible patterns are present throughout nature, Fibbonacci numbers being one of the more well-known. There is such an incredible design shown in nature that we could list things all day long, but we trust you get the main point. CLEARLY THROUGHOUT NATURE, WE CAN SEE GOD'S STAMP ON ALL OF CREATION.

The one great question now is, may we not expect to find the same phenomena in that greatest of all God's works, His Word?

"Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear" (HEBREWS 11:3).

... to continue reading...
http://www.cai.org/faq/bible-mathematics

Please forgive my curiosity. Do.


For all non-believers and uncertainties, if given a choice...

Do you want it to be true that God Exists?

Why?

cthia wrote:The various periods of GESTATION (pregnancy) also are commonly a multiple of SEVEN, either of days or weeks.

With INSECTS the ova are hatched from SEVEN half-days (such as the wasp, bee, etc.); while with others it is SEVEN whole days. The majority of insects require from 14 (2 x 7) to 42 (6 x 7) days; the same applies to the larva state.

With ANIMALS the period of gestation of:

⦁ The mouse is 21 (3 x 7) days.
⦁ The hare and rat, 28 (4 x 7) days.
⦁ The cat, 56 (8 x 7) days.
⦁ The dog, 63 (9 x 7) days.
⦁ The lion, 98 (14 x 7) days.
⦁ The sheep, 147 (21 x 7) days.

With BIRDS, the incubation of:

⦁ The common hen is 21 (3 x 7) days.
⦁ The duck, 28 (4 x 7) days.

With the HUMAN species it is 280 days (or 40 x 7).
Moreover, man appears to be made on what we may call the SEVEN-day principle. In various diseases the SEVENTH, FOURTEENTH, and TWENTY-FIRST are critical days; and in others, SEVEN or 14 half-days. Man's pulse beats on the SEVEN-day principle... for six days out of the seven it beats faster in the morning than in the evening, while on the seventh day it beats slower. Thus the number SEVEN IS STAMPED UPON PHYSIOLOGY, and he is thus admonished, as man, to rest one day in seven. He cannot violate this law with impunity, for it is interwoven with his very being." [End quote].

See, this is why I find creationism to be intellectually and morally corrupt.

The gestation period in mice is, on average, 20 days. In norwegian rats, it is actually 21 days (why does your source claim it's 28?)
For cats, the gestation period is actually between 64 and 67 days.
Dogs, 58 to 68 days.
Lions, 110 days.
Sheep, ~150 days.

And what about every species of vertebrate animal? How many fall within this supposed pattern? Why stop at those examples?

So, why does your source claim either false numbers, or round them up so that they fit into this "it's all connected to the length of the week" thing? Is that what true science is?

Moving on, your source claims that humans awake to a lower heart rate on sundays; If it is true, what other explanations may be found for this, and have they been ruled out? Is this also true of people who do not have Sunday as rest days? In other words, what if your source saw a cause and an effect and just mislabelled the two?

Creationism doesn't question. Creationists cannot be relied upon to be honest in their findings. That is why its proponents are idiots, frauds, snake-oil salesmen and charlatans.

I think the problem here is twofold.

1. Numbers will get rounded to try to fit patterns.
2. These patterns may not exist/ the finder may have apophenia.

The E wrote:See, this is why I find creationism to be intellectually and morally corrupt.

The gestation period in mice is, on average, 20 days. In norwegian rats, it is actually 21 days (why does your source claim it's 28?)
For cats, the gestation period is actually between 64 and 67 days.
Dogs, 58 to 68 days.
Lions, 110 days.
Sheep, ~150 days.

And what about every species of vertebrate animal? How many fall within this supposed pattern? Why stop at those examples?

So, why does your source claim either false numbers, or round them up so that they fit into this "it's all connected to the length of the week" thing? Is that what true science is?

Moving on, your source claims that humans awake to a lower heart rate on sundays; If it is true, what other explanations may be found for this, and have they been ruled out? Is this also true of people who do not have Sunday as rest days? In other words, what if your source saw a cause and an effect and just mislabelled the two?

Creationism doesn't question. Creationists cannot be relied upon to be honest in their findings. That is why its proponents are idiots, frauds, snake-oil salesmen and charlatans.

Spacekiwi wrote:I think the problem here is twofold.

1. Numbers will get rounded to try to fit patterns.
2. These patterns may not exist/ the finder may have apophenia.

The E wrote:See, this is why I find creationism to be intellectually and morally corrupt.

The gestation period in mice is, on average, 20 days. In norwegian rats, it is actually 21 days (why does your source claim it's 28?)
For cats, the gestation period is actually between 64 and 67 days.
Dogs, 58 to 68 days.
Lions, 110 days.
Sheep, ~150 days.

And what about every species of vertebrate animal? How many fall within this supposed pattern? Why stop at those examples?

So, why does your source claim either false numbers, or round them up so that they fit into this "it's all connected to the length of the week" thing? Is that what true science is?

Moving on, your source claims that humans awake to a lower heart rate on sundays; If it is true, what other explanations may be found for this, and have they been ruled out? Is this also true of people who do not have Sunday as rest days? In other words, what if your source saw a cause and an effect and just mislabelled the two?

Creationism doesn't question. Creationists cannot be relied upon to be honest in their findings. That is why its proponents are idiots, frauds, snake-oil salesmen and charlatans.

This was only posted as a hmm topic of interest, and this part of the post was pasted 'in hopes' of piquing your interest enough to continue reading the full course, where the meat and potatoes are, Bible Numerics. An interesting topic, meant only for your edification.

It was an interesting enough topic for Sir Isaac Newton to spend much time on it, when he could have been gathering more apples.