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Saganami Island

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Re: I Am Sorry! ...
Post by Theemile   » Fri May 22, 2015 3:05 pm

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HB of CJ wrote:Never post on this excellent forum before your coffee ... or tea. I keep posting in the wrong sections and even then I hijack the thread. I am sorry everybody. Let me have my coffee. Glug glug.

In spite of the war, the Manities probably had things in hand well enough to just slightly streamline the teaching while cleaning up on the stuff that was not essential for becoming a good officer.

What has not been explored completely is the Manties going deeper into the senior enlisted ranks to select cadre for the Island. While this also creates a shortage of the best enlisted personal, ...

... It would also give the officers corp a different view of things. Like from the bottom up rather than the common mistake of trying to run a military from the top down. More experience.

As far as the present day USA military academys, perhaps in the future ONLY enlisted personal with hopefully combat experience will be selected for the boat school. Bottom up. Not Mustangs.

They would still be ring knockers, but had several tours as a seaman, working their way up via merit only. Then the very best of them would go to the Naval Academy. Just me. HB of CJ (coot)



Senior enlisted don't go through the Island to become officers - They go through OCS - See the tale of Ginger's rise to Chief Engineer in SoS. Where OCS is exactly , I'm not sure (heck it might even be on the Island), but Mustangs go not go through Saganami Island proper as do new recruits.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: I Am Sorry! ...
Post by stewart   » Fri May 22, 2015 7:41 pm

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Theemile wrote:
HB of CJ wrote:Never post on this excellent forum before your coffee ... or tea. I keep posting in the wrong sections and even then I hijack the thread. I am sorry everybody. Let me have my coffee. Glug glug.

In spite of the war, the Manities probably had things in hand well enough to just slightly streamline the teaching while cleaning up on the stuff that was not essential for becoming a good officer.

What has not been explored completely is the Manties going deeper into the senior enlisted ranks to select cadre for the Island. While this also creates a shortage of the best enlisted personal, ...

... It would also give the officers corp a different view of things. Like from the bottom up rather than the common mistake of trying to run a military from the top down. More experience.

As far as the present day USA military academys, perhaps in the future ONLY enlisted personal with hopefully combat experience will be selected for the boat school. Bottom up. Not Mustangs.

They would still be ring knockers, but had several tours as a seaman, working their way up via merit only. Then the very best of them would go to the Naval Academy. Just me. HB of CJ (coot)



Senior enlisted don't go through the Island to become officers - They go through OCS - See the tale of Ginger's rise to Chief Engineer in SoS. Where OCS is exactly , I'm not sure (heck it might even be on the Island), but Mustangs go not go through Saganami Island proper as do new recruits.


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The USN has several enlisted commissioning programs, including a few that take fleet sailors into the USNA. One former CNO did that route. Conceivably, you could have a ring-knocker with a "didn't get caught ribbon" and a silver warfare insignia all earned legitimately...

I suspect the RMN may have a similar program since the RMN appears to draw from both the heritage of the Brit RN and the USN.

-- Stewart
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Re: Saganami Island
Post by Garth 2   » Sun May 24, 2015 5:07 am

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given in SoS; the pilot was quietly proud of breaking some of Honors records we can assume that that those skills are still taught at the island, especially if the advantages out weigh the cost in time, another example would be the Martial arts.
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Re: Saganami Island
Post by Senior Chief   » Sun May 24, 2015 12:49 pm

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Senior Chief wrote:Making training time shorter on th island, the admiralty could have done what the USN did under CNO Zumwalt

Zumwalt instituted the 'Mod Squad' - Destroyer Squadron 26 and later 31 - to give promising young officers early command experience. Billets were a rank lower than normal.

I was in the Navy during this time period and remember all the Z-grams. If the above was tried by the First Space Lord they would have to get rid of all politics and favoritism.



I also forgot to mention that during my Navy service I as a senior enlisted (E-8)Operations Specialist became qualified to stand JOOD watches (Junior Officer of the Deck)while under way which is normally an officer function. I met the same standards as any officer and stood before a qual board which I passed and was signed off my the Squadron Commodore. Of course it helped that I was also qualified as a CIC Watch Officer; and DC central repair locker #2 leader as well. I stood my underway watches with a Mustang Officer (former enlisted Operations Specialist) who went to OCS. The USS Orleck had a high percentage of Mustang Officers, even the Captain was former enlisted during WWII.

I generally have more respect for Mustangs over Annapolis grads. I served with one Annapolis grad (a jerk who could not understand why I was not an officer and kept nagging me to apply for OCS and in the end I told him my parents were married and I knew who my father was and I retired a year later after 22 years 4 months and 10 days; should of stayed for 30.
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Re: Saganami Island
Post by n7axw   » Mon May 25, 2015 8:59 pm

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I have no service experience, but I'm of the impression that a lot of the spit and polish and emphasis on tradition promotes a common identity. I'd think that would be pretty important for any military since what you are doing is promoting cohesion.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Saganami Island
Post by kzt   » Mon May 25, 2015 9:27 pm

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n7axw wrote:I have no service experience, but I'm of the impression that a lot of the spit and polish and emphasis on tradition promotes a common identity. I'd think that would be pretty important for any military since what you are doing is promoting cohesion.

A lot is just learning to do whatever you are told to do and doing it per standard.
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Re: Saganami Island
Post by dreamrider   » Fri May 29, 2015 3:48 am

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kzt wrote:
n7axw wrote:I have no service experience, but I'm of the impression that a lot of the spit and polish and emphasis on tradition promotes a common identity. I'd think that would be pretty important for any military since what you are doing is promoting cohesion.

A lot is just learning to do whatever you are told to do and doing it per standard.


Been there. Both of these are correct. Also shared stress of an easily applicable form which does not involve actual bodily harm. Also, to some degree, washing out those who are not willing to put up with even petty annoyances to achieve their higher goals.

dreamrider
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