PICA updates

It was my impression that OWL needed to build the machines,
to mine the elements,
to build the machines,
to process the elements,
needed to build the machines,
to create the materials,
essential to build the machines,
to create the materials,
essential to build the machines,
to create the materials,
essential to build the machines,
to create the materials,
essential to build the machines,
etc.

Thinks like the aramid fiber and nowadays graphene sheets are the predecessors of the far more complex to fabricate 24th century materials used in the production of PICA's and NEAT's.

What OWL has to do to make those materials is essentially the same as Howsmyn is doing on a much larger industrial scale. Howsmyn is going through all the generations of machinery and pulling a large labor force along.
To get those materials needed for all of Safehold, he will take a bit longer to get there than OWL would for small quantities, but it will be embedded in an industrial base.

Tanstaafl wrote:It was my impression that OWL needed to build the machines,
to mine the elements,
to build the machines,
to process the elements,
needed to build the machines,
to create the materials,
essential to build the machines,
to create the materials,
essential to build the machines,
to create the materials,
essential to build the machines,
to create the materials,
essential to build the machines,
etc.

.

...which wriggled and jiggled and tickled inside her?

PeterZ wrote:

Tanstaafl wrote:It was my impression that OWL needed to build the machines,
to mine the elements,
to build the machines,
to process the elements,
needed to build the machines,
to create the materials,
essential to build the machines,
to create the materials,
essential to build the machines,
to create the materials,
essential to build the machines,
to create the materials,
essential to build the machines,
etc.

.

...which wriggled and jiggled and tickled inside her?

Do we know why....

Don

Tanstaafl wrote:It was my impression that OWL needed to build the machines,
to mine the elements,
to build the machines,
to process the elements,
needed to build the machines,
to create the materials,
essential to build the machines,
to create the materials,
essential to build the machines,
to create the materials,
essential to build the machines,
to create the materials,
essential to build the machines,
etc.

Thinks like the aramid fiber and nowadays graphene sheets are the predecessors of the far more complex to fabricate 24th century materials used in the production of PICA's and NEAT's.

What OWL has to do to make those materials is essentially the same as Howsmyn is doing on a much larger industrial scale. Howsmyn is going through all the generations of machinery and pulling a large labor force along.
To get those materials needed for all of Safehold, he will take a bit longer to get there than OWL would for small quantities, but it will be embedded in an industrial base.

This gets back to an earlier thought of mine: why couldn't OWL start building a ship capable of handling the Rakurai, such as, say, a destroyer? Maybe it would take years to build, but Merlin's already been fighting for 6 or so years. How long would it take, and how large would it be?

Ok, I know that in the Honorverse a Pre-Roland DD masses about 90-100 KTons. Also, it would need help lifting from a planetary surface.

Still, if OWL built the machines to build the machines to ..., and mine the resources, and drill out room in the mountain for it, and so forth, ok, it might take 20 years, but as long as building it didn't set off the orbiting sensors, who cares?

For that matter, OWL could be doing that. Merlin did order him to find a way to defeat the Rakuri, so if he kept the literal instructions, he might one day tell Merlin that his orders had been carried out and the FNS Pei Shan-Wei is ready for launch.

-- Bob G

BobG wrote:
This gets back to an earlier thought of mine: why couldn't OWL start building a ship capable of handling the Rakurai, such as, say, a destroyer? Maybe it would take years to build, but Merlin's already been fighting for 6 or so years. How long would it take, and how large would it be?

Ok, I know that in the Honorverse a Pre-Roland DD masses about 90-100 KTons. Also, it would need help lifting from a planetary surface.

Still, if OWL built the machines to build the machines to ..., and mine the resources, and drill out room in the mountain for it, and so forth, ok, it might take 20 years, but as long as building it didn't set off the orbiting sensors, who cares?

For that matter, OWL could be doing that. Merlin did order him to find a way to defeat the Rakuri, so if he kept the literal instructions, he might one day tell Merlin that his orders had been carried out and the FNS Pei Shan-Wei is ready for launch.

-- Bob G

I do remember that thought and am a bit skeptical of it. But could it be that they could test the notion of getting one of the shuttles in the cave out into space past the OBS first? They have at least one assault shuttle in there. If so they could perhaps build a space station/ship yard in orbit out beyond the OBS which is focused inward on Safehold instead of toward space.

Don

well the main reason i think that owl has not used the industrial module to do all of this is the fact that it is not part of the plot or simply that for some reason no one has thought of it. Another possibility though is that there is no nearby deposit of the required element and in that case owl cannot really just go anywhere in the world and plop down an automated mine as that would most likely be detected. So the most likely reason in my opinion is that while there is a lot of iron in the above Nimues cave there is not many other elements and owl cannot deploy an automated mine because that would be detected by the OBS. And it would be very difficult to hide any type of mine.

captinjoehenry wrote:well the main reason i think that owl has not used the industrial module to do all of this is the fact that it is not part of the plot or simply that for some reason no one has thought of it. Another possibility though is that there is no nearby deposit of the required element and in that case owl cannot really just go anywhere in the world and plop down an automated mine as that would most likely be detected. So the most likely reason in my opinion is that while there is a lot of iron in the above Nimues cave there is not many other elements and owl cannot deploy an automated mine because that would be detected by the OBS. And it would be very difficult to hide any type of mine.

It would depend how big the mine was. Any mine built under the circumstances would not be intended to move tons of ore and overburden. Also, Safehold is thinly populated.

If the ore body could be accessed through a natural cave, especially a deep cave, the "keyhole" can be a bit bigger than otherwise. If the area is deep wilderness, then there shouldn't be -too- much risk of detection. OWL can always go into time shifted reality mode and work rapidly with extreme care. Blasting would be unnecessary.

Until recently mines were holes maybe three or four feet in diameter. They would go five or six feet deep and then do the 'underground thing' when they struck the vein.

Of course, plot points govern.

walt wrote:

captinjoehenry wrote:well the main reason i think that owl has not used the industrial module to do all of this is the fact that it is not part of the plot or simply that for some reason no one has thought of it. Another possibility though is that there is no nearby deposit of the required element and in that case owl cannot really just go anywhere in the world and plop down an automated mine as that would most likely be detected. So the most likely reason in my opinion is that while there is a lot of iron in the above Nimues cave there is not many other elements and owl cannot deploy an automated mine because that would be detected by the OBS. And it would be very difficult to hide any type of mine.

It would depend how big the mine was. Any mine built under the circumstances would not be intended to move tons of ore and overburden. Also, Safehold is thinly populated.

If the ore body could be accessed through a natural cave, especially a deep cave, the "keyhole" can be a bit bigger than otherwise. If the area is deep wilderness, then there shouldn't be -too- much risk of detection. OWL can always go into time shifted reality mode and work rapidly with extreme care. Blasting would be unnecessary.

Until recently mines were holes maybe three or four feet in diameter. They would go five or six feet deep and then do the 'underground thing' when they struck the vein.

Of course, plot points govern.

i was referring to the fact that the OBS would most likely be able to detect the automated mine as in order for it to function it would most likely be using industrial robots which are not as stealthy as the military gear they have been using up till now and in order to make a stealthy auto mine OWL would most likely have to do a fair bit of R&R now this is not necessarily hard but i would gues it would take a while.

captinjoehenry wrote:i was referring to the fact that the OBS would most likely be able to detect the automated mine as in order for it to function it would most likely be using industrial robots which are not as stealthy as the military gear they have been using up till now and in order to make a stealthy auto mine OWL would most likely have to do a fair bit of R&R now this is not necessarily hard but i would gues it would take a while.

They have nanites! They don't need robots to mine!

MTO wrote:

captinjoehenry wrote:i was referring to the fact that the OBS would most likely be able to detect the automated mine as in order for it to function it would most likely be using industrial robots which are not as stealthy as the military gear they have been using up till now and in order to make a stealthy auto mine OWL would most likely have to do a fair bit of R&R now this is not necessarily hard but i would guess it would take a while.

They have nannites! They don't need robots to mine!

Actually, both viewpoints may be true. TF tech may indeed have nannites that can dissolve the minerals that surround the ones they're mining. However, those nannites would need to be constantly directed and replenished, which would require a "nannite fabber" and controlling equipment, which could be an all-in-one mechanical creation of some sort.

It would still require a goodly amount of energy to create the needed nannites and to refine the ore so that only the bare minimum of required elements need to be sent to OWL. This all happens under the watchful eye of the OBS after all, even if most of it happens well under ground. So it would probably need a fusion-powered mining "robot" even if it uses nannites, and stealthed transports to carry the mined materials back to OWL.

And that's a sneaky way of doing it! If TF tech can't mine using nannites, then a bunch of robots would be required, and the odds of the OBS noticing would go up considerably, even with a deep shaft mine.

It may not come up in the series, but someday OWL is really going to need to create something for which he doesn't have the needed materials, and he's going to need to get them somehow. The OBS may need to be removed before that's possible, but the thought of mining right under the nose of the OBS is certainly intriguing!