Promotion for CWO Harkness

Fox2! wrote:

Somtaaw wrote:
Someone like Harkness might be willing to accept the appointment as "Colonel of Marines" like what Honor got way back after signing Grayson into the Alliance. But that's about as far as I can figure him going to accept an actual commission.

The title of "Colonel of Marines" is only a mark of the Crown's favor. It conveys no actual rank or authority. It does carry a nice gratuity, at least until the Colonel makes List Flag.

In the case of a CW4 sworn never to accept a commission, that would occur sometime after the heat death of the universe.

Corrected: as below, designation as a "Colonel of Marines" is the gift of the Sovereign to a Captain of the List she can't promote to Flag rank,, but wishes to acknowledge in a particular way.

Do we have actual confirmation that being a Colonel of the Marines goes away? Or just that only somebody in the right range of ranks can initially receive it?

As far as the pay goes ... I'm pretty sure he doesn't need it, based on the prize money he's gotten. Sure, he was 'only' getting a noncom/senior noncom slice for most of the time, but he still should have picked up a fairly large amount, just from the activities we've seen him in on screen, as it were.
Financial concerns are, I expect, not one of their worries.

Kytheros wrote:Do we have actual confirmation that being a Colonel of the Marines goes away? Or just that only somebody in the right range of ranks can initially receive it?

Hm. I just did a search in the text, in the Pearls, and in this forum for anything RFC may have posted with the term "Colonel of Marines". I found only one use of that phrase:

Field of Dishonor wrote:"I've decided to appoint you to the rank of Colonel of Marines, as well."

Honor's eyes widened in surprise as great as Henke's. Appointment as a colonel of Marines was a way for the Crown to show special approval of a captain too junior for promotion to flag rank, and very few officers ever received the honor. It wouldn't change her actual authority in any way, but she would receive a colonel's salary in addition to her regular pay, and the appointment was an equivocal indication of royal favor.

. . .

"At any rate, I intend for this entire Kingdom to know how I regard you. That's the reason for your your appointment as Colonel of Marines, of course."

That's all the textev I can find. I have a vague memory that someone asked what happened later to that honorary rank and David saying that it expired when she reached flag rank. But I can't find any confirmation of that memory.

Can anyone else find anything? The last few times I went looking for textev, I've missed things.

Scotty Tremaine for Third Lord of Admirality and Horace Harkness for Fifth Space Lord.

Hi JeffEngel,

The marines aboard Nike were better off than the Salamander's average according to FoD, though heavy losses and transfers were the excuse for their little unscheduled jaunt to Gryphon.

L

JeffEngel wrote:

Somtaaw wrote:Actually thinking about it, Honor is really rough on her poor Marine contingents. Other than when she was at Basilisk, I think every ship she's skippered into battle gets their Marines massacred.

HMS Fearless, Heavy Cruiser at Yeltsin - shot to crap, heavy casualties
HMS Nike, Battlecruiser at Hancock - shot to crap, heavy casualties
HMAMC Wayfarer, in Silesia - shot to crap, around 70% casualties (estimated)

It's not just the Marines - the whole crew tends to suffer a lot of death. The Marines at Basilisk were "lucky" that they were instead dealing with ten thousand drug- and religion-maddened Medusans; aboard ship, they'd've been killed and maimed a lot.

I've not read In Fire Forged yet (dagnubbit), so I can't speak to the casualty rate of the Marines on Hawkwing.

lyonheart wrote:Hi JeffEngel,

The marines aboard Nike were better off than the Salamander's average according to FoD, though heavy losses and transfers were the excuse for their little unscheduled jaunt to Gryphon.

L

Yeaaah... I'm going to take that as another way of stating her average casualties are horrific. But Nike did get pounded a lot less than either Fearless or Wayfarer, or (taking up some command instances) Prince Adrian or the squadron at Fourth Yeltsin.

The Salamander shines when you run thee focus back and see what was accomplished with what resources under what circumstances, much more than by some ideal of the bloodless victory or the victory without fighting. But after all of that, I'm sure she's far more proud of a peace treaties than winning any of those battles.

Yow wrote:Scotty Tremaine for Third Lord of Admirality and Horace Harkness for Fifth Space Lord.

O.O Horace shuffling paper in the personnel department? He'd be up on top of Admiralty House with a pulse rifle inside a week.

Gun Boat Diplomacy wrote:Is just me or ??? I think that Harkness should be booted up to Officer status. A lieutenant or Lt.Commander, I should think. After all, he's been holding officer slots lately and with the planning and execution of the jail break in "in enemy hands" has shown natural leadership bordering on almost Honor Harrington levels.

I served in a Service & Branch that had a LOT of Warrants. I never met ONE who wanted to be a commissioned officer, at least not until they hit age 62 in retirement, when their inherent Reserve commissions kicked in. They loved being elbows deep in their particular specialty too much, and ESPECIALLY did not want to be regularly involved in UCMJ or Personnel issues.

Note that all of these guys had had the opportunity to shift to a commissioned officer track, usually at about the time they stood for WO, and a couple of times after. Just not their orientation.

Besides, you've never SEEN power until you have met a CWO-4 or (Fear the Lord!) CWO-5 who literally wrote the manuals that most of the troops AND officers around them used to learn the "hard stuff". Lieutenant, pray that the Wolf Pack views you as adequate and moldable material.

Here's a scary thought Harkness and Scotty as instructors at the RMNA-SI. Scotty can teach LAC tactics while Harkness can teach computer forensics.

Kytheros wrote:

Do we have actual confirmation that being a Colonel of the Marines goes away? Or just that only somebody in the right range of ranks can initially receive it?

The ultimate source material (Hornblower) stated that the recipient of the designation of Colonel of Marines has to be a Post Captain who the Sovereign (or, in Hornblower's case, George (will become IV) as Regent for his father, George III) wishes to recognize, but, for whatever reason, can't promote to Flag rank (too junior, political issues, etc.) at the moment. The appointment goes away when the recipient finally receives his flag. I haven't seen my Hornblowers since I moved, so I can't provide the exact quote or the title of the novel.)

Fox2! wrote:Kytheros wrote:

Do we have actual confirmation that being a Colonel of the Marines goes away? Or just that only somebody in the right range of ranks can initially receive it?

The ultimate source material (Hornblower) stated that the recipient of the designation of Colonel of Marines has to be a Post Captain who the Sovereign (or, in Hornblower's case, George (will become IV) as Regent for his father, George III) wishes to recognize, but, for whatever reason, can't promote to Flag rank (too junior, political issues, etc.) at the moment. The appointment goes away when the recipient finally receives his flag. I haven't seen my Hornblowers since I moved, so I can't provide the exact quote or the title of the novel.)

It was standard practice in the RN during the Napoleonic era. It finally ended in the RN in the 1870's.