Electrical Devices on Safehold

I was considering the arguments concerning non-electrical firecontrol systems for warships in another thread when I asked my self: Why is there so much attention and avoidance of electrical devices on Safehold when they already exist. Father Paityr Wylsynn's verifier, the electronic locks on the suites in the Temple (refer to the overriding of the Wylsynn's locks by the Inquisitions wands when Vicar Hauwerd and Vicar Samyl were arrested), the "magical" chairs that conform to the body of the occupant, Merlin's air cars and the Temple's environmental systems all requite circuitry and power. Not to mention the mysterious console for Schueler's Key located in the Temple basement. Plus when Merlin used the simulation devices to test the OBS threshold for detection of steam engines, surely those simulators were electronic in nature. Enough simple metal shielding should restrict the telltale electromagnetic emissions of small electrical systems on a warship to below what triggers the OBS as long as you aren't talking about a widespread distribution network. The same might apply for smaller applications like a manufacturing site as long as the distribution of power is well shielded and contained with in a building. Just speculation.

I think that this is a case of electronics as distinct from electric power generation.

jlrice54 wrote:I was considering the arguments concerning non-electrical firecontrol systems for warships in another thread when I asked my self: Why is there so much attention and avoidance of electrical devices on Safehold when they already exist. Father Paityr Wylsynn's verifier, the electronic locks on the suites in the Temple (refer to the overriding of the Wylsynn's locks by the Inquisitions wands when Vicar Hauwerd and Vicar Samyl were arrested), the "magical" chairs that conform to the body of the occupant, Merlin's air cars and the Temple's environmental systems all requite circuitry and power. Not to mention the mysterious console for Schueler's Key located in the Temple basement. Plus when Merlin used the simulation devices to test the OBS threshold for detection of steam engines, surely those simulators were electronic in nature. Enough simple metal shielding should restrict the telltale electromagnetic emissions of small electrical systems on a warship to below what triggers the OBS as long as you aren't talking about a widespread distribution network. The same might apply for smaller applications like a manufacturing site as long as the distribution of power is well shielded and contained with in a building. Just speculation.

Hiding something from orbit depends on how hard the someone in orbit is looking. Screening requires a knowledge of electricity far in advance of an experimental bungler would likely have, however if we postulate a system looking for an advanced manufacturing system then the trigger signature would likely be smaller. An arc lamp or arc welder (or even an arc furnace or electrofining system) would have a very high signature that would be hard to hide from a carefully designed detector however if you postulate that micro power transmitters were still being used during the time it was set up then the trigger levels set may be much higher to avoid nuisance detections.

See: http://www.davidweber.net/faqs/index/series:6/page:2 Topic "Why can't Charis have electricity? (Asked Sun May 12, 2013)"

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Now, at the same time that Langhorne was setting up the prohibition of advanced technology, he was making provision for the "archangels" and "angels" to continue to use very advanced technology to validate their supernatural powers. Merlin's SNARCs are using shielded, stealthed communications arrays designed to hide from hostile tactical sensors — aimed against the Gbaba, at the time the SNARCs were built, but equally effective against any sensors the orbital array might mount — and walking in the footsteps of the technology Langhorne himself ruled was usable by the "archangels." Moreover, there is a quantum leap between the initial production of electricity and the highly advanced applications of it inherent in Merlin's toys. In effect, it would be relatively simple to build a protocol into the bombardment platform's sensors (assuming, of course, that the sensors are actually prepared to blast technology on the planetary surface in the first place) which differentiates between "technology so advanced it must be being used by the 'archangels'" and "technology so crude that it couldn't be being used by the 'archangels.'" If it's the latter, it needs to be smitten . . . quickly; if it's the former, leave it alone because it's being used on Langhorne's business.


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jlrice54 wrote:I was considering the arguments concerning non-electrical firecontrol systems for warships in another thread when I asked my self: Why is there so much attention and avoidance of electrical devices on Safehold when they already exist. Father Paityr Wylsynn's verifier, the electronic locks on the suites in the Temple (refer to the overriding of the Wylsynn's locks by the Inquisitions wands when Vicar Hauwerd and Vicar Samyl were arrested), the "magical" chairs that conform to the body of the occupant, Merlin's air cars and the Temple's environmental systems all requite circuitry and power. Not to mention the mysterious console for Schueler's Key located in the Temple basement. Plus when Merlin used the simulation devices to test the OBS threshold for detection of steam engines, surely those simulators were electronic in nature. Enough simple metal shielding should restrict the telltale electromagnetic emissions of small electrical systems on a warship to below what triggers the OBS as long as you aren't talking about a widespread distribution network. The same might apply for smaller applications like a manufacturing site as long as the distribution of power is well shielded and contained with in a building. Just speculation.

Readers should recall that the hypothesized OBS system has not been used since the tail end of the War of the Fallen, and there is absolutely no evidence that anything other that the defense system is functional. The Inner Circle may be hiding from their own imagination.

phillies wrote:Readers should recall that the hypothesized OBS system has not been used since the tail end of the War of the Fallen, and there is absolutely no evidence that anything other that the defense system is functional. The Inner Circle may be hiding from their own imagination.

Yeah, while that is "possible" ( in the way that ANYTHING is possible ), it is so remote a possibility that it should be ignored.

Let's see, the much more complex defense system is operational. But the dumb, relatively speaking, ability to drop tungsten/nickel rods down on surface targets has somehow stopped working.

Isilith wrote:

phillies wrote:Readers should recall that the hypothesized OBS system has not been used since the tail end of the War of the Fallen, and there is absolutely no evidence that anything other that the defense system is functional. The Inner Circle may be hiding from their own imagination.

Yeah, while that is "possible" ( in the way that ANYTHING is possible ), it is so remote a possibility that it should be ignored.

Let's see, the much more complex defense system is operational. But the dumb, relatively speaking, ability to drop tungsten/nickel rods down on surface targets has somehow stopped working.

Hi Isilith,

You have a valid, but not absolute point. Sometimes it is the simple stuff that goes whacky... I maintain my amateur radio station, for example. When something stops working, the first thing I check are connectors and grounds... Or with a car, don't overhaul the engine before you know you're not out of gas.

The thing is that sometimes things that are more complex can be more reliable because they were put together more carefully with that complexity in mind.

Another factor to consider is random chance. With the OBS after 1000 years, randomness could be a heavy factor in what stays workng and what breaks down simply because you are beyond the normal functional expectancy of the components of the system. That would play into the simple and the complex alike.

My own suspicion is that the system is on manual control rather than automatics. I don't think it will go off unless something or someone tells it to. That being said I wouldn't be willing to bet the rent on my hunch.

Don

David has been very careful to not give us any hints about whether the OBS is functional, or what its programming is if it is functional. He's been very sneaky about it.

n7axw wrote:My own suspicion is that the system is on manual control rather than automatics. I don't think it will go off unless something or someone tells it to. That being said I wouldn't be willing to bet the rent on my hunch.

Don

What people are forgetting (or ignoring) is the cost of being wrong. It is entirely possible that the OBS KEWs are indeed on manual control and always have been.

But if there is one chance in a million that it is on automatic then that is one chance too many for Charis (or whoever starts channeling T.A. Edison) to survive because the one thing that is guaranteed to be noticeable from orbit is power transmission lines and/or spark-gap radio communications.

The modern electronics used by Merlin & Co or buried in the Temple are several orders of magnitude weaker than an early spark-gap or commercial radio broadcast signal -- 50,000 to 100,000 watts vs one watt or less for a modern cell phone or five watts or less for a FRS walky-talky.

You know, in some ways being on manual control is WORSE than being set to automatically destroy any signs of emerging electrical tech. If the OBS is on manual control when it detects emerging electrical tech, then instead of blasting the offending source, it would instead be programmed to NOTIFY SOMEONE.

Which leads to one of two scenarios:

Scenario 1 - Vicar Someone: "The Archangels have just told me that Charis is violating the Proscriptions!"

Scenario 2 - Archangel Rip Van Winkle: "What the heck is going on around here and who do I have to shoot to fix it?"