Official HFQ Snippet #25

isaac_newton wrote:

JeffEngel wrote:...or 2 - Schueler betrayed Kohdy, out of true belief or by accident, but it's still a sort of last straw and the spiritual "taint" got passed on to him. Secretly, he wasn't Chihiro's follower anymore but the War was lost. All that was left for him to do by way of trying to redeem himself was to pass the mission on to a family and give them the tools and the sense of purpose to do it.

I can see a third possibility.

Langhorne has died and his successor Chihiro, especially after the discovery of 'tech transfer' to the fallen, would be on high alert for disloyal behaviour amongst his own staff. What better way to discover this than by bugging [maybe by AI, just as with OWL and Merlin]?

Then Kohdy goes to Schuhler - v suspicious - and he hears what they are discussing. Kohdy is killed and maybe Schuhler is 'translated'. Chihiro then uses Schuhler's reputation to give backing to little things like the strike on the convent, the book of Schuhler etc.

Right. I'd had this in mind as the "by accident" possibility and abbreviated it that much in a desperate attempt to reduce wordiness. It failed!

As a random aside, in some ways this reminds me of the russian revolution with Langhorne as Lenin, Chihiro as Stalin and Schuhler as Trotsky

Somewhat, yes. I didn't think it mapped on to that well enough, as I don't recall Stalin trying to use Trotsky's reputation posthumously.

Re length of Schueler's survival after Kohdy's death: he had to live long enough to be near the end of his TF-boosted longevity based on his recorded message to the Wylsynns. That suggests at least (no, it's no conclusive) that he was around well after the War Against the Fallen, albeit not necessarily trusted or in a lot of power. Also, he had to be around long enough to place them in a position of influence within the Church as it was shaping up to be, something that wouldn't be clear long before the end of the war.

Re Schueler's family being a potential embarrassment: it's not about the inability of corporeal Archangels to get it on with mortals, it's about the propriety of it. The Wylsynn lineage that way is a bit legendary, so it's not something that was considered normal, and (this is conjectural, admittedly, but I'm quite confident in it) Archangelic ties of that sort to mortals would utterly compromise their distance and remoteness, crucial to their authority. No one is the magnificent, awesome representative of a splendid God when they're doing all the normal, mundane business of courting, sex and parenting. (Well, not unless you've got a whole lot more warm and approachable theology than Chihiro had in mind.)

Thank you for the post RFC. Hope the pacemaker works well.

Isn't Duchairn of the order of Chihiro?

Should Chihiro have had a falling out with Schuler and Chihiro returns.

That might make things a bit unpleasant for Clyntahn.

JeffEngel wrote:

isaac_newton wrote:
I can see a third possibility.

Langhorne has died and his successor Chihiro, especially after the discovery of 'tech transfer' to the fallen, would be on high alert for disloyal behaviour amongst his own staff. What better way to discover this than by bugging [maybe by AI, just as with OWL and Merlin]?

Then Kohdy goes to Schuhler - v suspicious - and he hears what they are discussing. Kohdy is killed and maybe Schuhler is 'translated'. Chihiro then uses Schuhler's reputation to give backing to little things like the strike on the convent, the book of Schuhler etc.

Right. I'd had this in mind as the "by accident" possibility and abbreviated it that much in a desperate attempt to reduce wordiness. It failed!

As a random aside, in some ways this reminds me of the russian revolution with Langhorne as Lenin, Chihiro as Stalin and Schuhler as Trotsky

Somewhat, yes. I didn't think it mapped on to that well enough, as I don't recall Stalin trying to use Trotsky's reputation posthumously.

Re length of Schueler's survival after Kohdy's death: he had to live long enough to be near the end of his TF-boosted longevity based on his recorded message to the Wylsynns. That suggests at least (no, it's no conclusive) that he was around well after the War Against the Fallen, albeit not necessarily trusted or in a lot of power. Also, he had to be around long enough to place them in a position of influence within the Church as it was shaping up to be, something that wouldn't be clear long before the end of the war.

Re Schueler's family being a potential embarrassment: it's not about the inability of corporeal Archangels to get it on with mortals, it's about the propriety of it. The Wylsynn lineage that way is a bit legendary, so it's not something that was considered normal, and (this is conjectural, admittedly, but I'm quite confident in it) Archangelic ties of that sort to mortals would utterly compromise their distance and remoteness, crucial to their authority. No one is the magnificent, awesome representative of a splendid God when they're doing all the normal, mundane business of courting, sex and parenting. (Well, not unless you've got a whole lot more warm and approachable theology than Chihiro had in mind.)

Good point on Schuhler's message and implications for his life span - after a while one tends to forget all the bits of the puzzle!

Also true on Trotsky! Though I suppose that Stalin used T's reputation in an inverse sort of way to smear those Stalin wanted gone; Buhkarin etc.

more warm and approachable theology than Chihiro had in mind

mmmm

1000 years to possible reappearance of an archangel and the mention of Hamilcar in a cometary orbit, me thinks we could have a match

question now would be who's hibernating on the ship?????

justdave wrote:mmmm

1000 years to possible reappearance of an archangel and the mention of Hamilcar in a cometary orbit, me thinks we could have a match

question now would be who's hibernating on the ship?????

Well - 1000 years to possible reappearance and the speculation of Hamilcar in a cometary orbit. As of now, it's just missing without lingering data. The end of the War and the disposition of personnel and material following it is still far from nailed down. Not every mystery gets tied up in a neat package.

Thank you for the snipped, RFC! And so the mystery of Cody Cortazar is solved... at least mostly.

*(kind of dances of joy because her guesses about guerilla warfare and seijins created to fight it were correct)*

Aaanyway... that opens a can of possibilities. It's interesting to hear that Schueler and Chihiro were not exactly a united front. It would be a classic case of dramatic irony if the "archangel" who had preferred less extremist version of the Church became the patron of its most extremist organization.

My guess about "Unfallen" being fractured was apparently only semi-correct, and WoF wasn't a multiple-teams deathmatch. Nevertheless, I wonder if the Langhornites (used in loosest sense of the word) wouldn't explode into factionalism after the common threat of the Fallen had passed. Perhaps Cody's death was one of the ways of stopping this, with Chihiro offing people who'd side with Schueler, and Cortazar's visit to Zion was simply a good opportunity, not to mention that it would alienate Cody's friends - and Schueler's potential followers - from Schueler. Perhaps there are dozens more Schuelerite seijins that Chihiro managed to wipe off the face of Safehold completely as a way to prevent another civil war and assure his own superiority. In this case, he could either hide Hamilcar, either as his ultimate weapon and/or private Arc, or destroy it in fear that it might be used against him.

If the former, maybe Paityr's Key is some kind of calling signal, ordering Hamilcar to return? That would be pretty irresponsible for Chihiro, what with Gbaba and all, but maybe, if the Temple could calculate Hamilcar's position and use some laser communicator...?

OTOH, why would Schueler leave the message then? And, by extension, why would Schueler leave the message at all? Did he reconcile with Chihiro? Or is he enacting his own long game and when the thousand-years mark comes, he'll come back to return the Church to Langhorne's (or his, if he strayed from Langhorne's path as well) initial idea?

What if they both come back with different goals in mind?

Those production modules captured my attention, too. Could they still be around, with their own little low-class AIs? TF built pretty Ragnarok-proof stuff, after all. <odd thought>What if Alvahrez or BGV found one in their tour de Siddarmark? Could they make it work? What could they do with it?</odd thought>

Kakai wrote:Those production modules captured my attention, too. Could they still be around, with their own little low-class AIs? TF built pretty Ragnarok-proof stuff, after all. <odd thought>What if Alvahrez or BGV found one in their tour de Siddarmark? Could they make it work? What could they do with it?</odd thought>

For the Temple Loyalists unless they came with a pre-recorded message ala Key of Schueler they would think it to be the work of Shan-wei, and even then I wouldn't bet on them using it. Calling for the inquisition sure, but creating a few hundred assault rifles? No chance. In-fact the only Loyalist who would use one as soon as he found it would be Clyntahn, because everything he does is in 'service' to God.

Baron Green Valley would simply use the comms to alert the inner circle and seal off the area. Eastshare and other ICA commanders would probably do the same but without the comm call.

Where is the evidence that Hamilcar was put into a cometary orbit?

SCC wrote:Where is the evidence that Hamilcar was put into a cometary orbit?

For one it doesn't appear to be in orbit around Safehold, Owl's sensor sweep might have picked it up and none of the native have twigged with "hey this 'dawn star' sounds like (insert name here) which travels the heavens."

It either is in an extreme orbit around the sun or was dropped into it like the rest of the fleet.

Ed130 The Vanguard wrote:

SCC wrote:Where is the evidence that Hamilcar was put into a cometary orbit?

For one it doesn't appear to be in orbit around Safehold, Owl's sensor sweep might have picked it up and none of the native have twigged with "hey this 'dawn star' sounds like (insert name here) which travels the heavens."

It either is in an extreme orbit around the sun or was dropped into it like the rest of the fleet.

This is a deduction, not evidence. I will admit that it is a possibility, but it is also a pretty strong possibility that it was dropped into the local sun as per the original plan.

Don