Origin of the BSL idea

kzt wrote:Sure, as long as I get to determine "need". As opposed to Adolf Eichmann or Lavrentiy Beria, who are the type of people who naturally gyrate towards those sorts of jobs.

Hornblower wrote:The problem in Germany is that if you have the new minimun wage of € 8.50 / hour your total tax deduction (including social security) on a pay increase is over 50%.

George J. Smith wrote:I'm thinking more in terms of, "I want a new car" not "I need a new car", when the car I currently have is adequate.

thinkstoomuch wrote:
But you miss a large portion of the problems with Social Security.

Half of that 15.3% you quote is not earned income. So add that 7.65% to current wages in the US. It never shows on a paystub except as an employer expense. Which

Just like what has been quoted for medical insurance. If the employer is paying it the worker never shows it as income, another unpaid benefit. So with ACA employer must pay it. Many thousands of dollars that still won't show up as worker income.

Which will makes productivity here in the US look great. But will be a false image.

Would take to long to for me to really sort out maybe PeterZ can explain the stuff better.

Comparing income tax rates other than SS (direct payroll/employer deduction with minimum fuss) is waste. Nobody actually pays the rate. Deductions mean that the average 50% of the people pay about 2-3% of their adjusted gross income (last I looked).

Which is why simplifying our tax code is such a bother. "Don't gore me get that other fat rich B******d not me".

There are deductions for just about everything, or so it seems. For example I with just personal deductions pay ~6 or 7% of my real retirement income. Which is way above average for my income group according to the IRS. Though I don't pay SS as it is "retirement income". No state tax either as FL just soaks the silly touristas.

Which is sort of Relax's point up thread. Why worry about saving when the Feds or somebody else do it for you "enjoy today, someone else will pay for that rainy day." Which I have demonstrated is a serious problem (with BEA data). Somehow in recession the US savings rate goes up. Less income but save at a higher rate, how's that work? Rhetorical question lots goes into that. Probably including who holds on to their job and who gets walking papers on average.

Have a good summer,
T2M

PS this was really doing to be a short post. Have no clue how it got so big. Again!

clancy688 wrote:

Hornblower wrote:The problem in Germany is that if you have the new minimun wage of € 8.50 / hour your total tax deduction (including social security) on a pay increase is over 50%.

Um, WHAT? Oo

My hourly salary is more than double that minimum wage, yet my overall tax deduction (including social security) is just a bit over 40%. And I'm single.

If you are on minimum wage, you'll get ~1500 € a month. Of that, you have to pay 400 € in social security and taxes (taxes are actually only 100 €), leaving you with 1100 €. That's less than 1/3 you have to shed. Even if you double that to ~3000 € a month, you'll still manage to hold on to roughly 2/3 (1100 in social security and taxes, giving you 1900 €). So if you're on a minimum wage (1500 € gross, 1100 € net), and your pay is doubled (3000 € gross, 1900 € net), your net income still goes up by 70%.

So no idea where you are getting your 50% number from.

SWM wrote:This should probably go to alt.politics--I mean, Free-Range.