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Information I'd love to know

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Re: Information I'd love to know
Post by JeffEngel   » Fri May 08, 2015 12:05 pm

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cthia wrote:Question.

We all know that there were many wholeasses making asshole decisions, but is there a case where Elizabeth actually had to disavow an officer?

Anton Zilwicki after the Manpower Incident is practically in that category - sort of beached forever due to the political mess that caused and getting Manticoran dirty laundry aired so publicly while a serving officer.
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Re: Information I'd love to know
Post by SWM   » Fri May 08, 2015 1:32 pm

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cthia wrote:Question.

We all know that there were many wholeasses making asshole decisions, but is there a case where Elizabeth actually had to disavow an officer?

What exactly do you mean by disavow?

If I understand what you mean, we don't know of any such cases. We wouldn't know unless it were relevant to the story. I'm sure there have been cases of espionage where the Queen had to disavow people.

We do know of several officers who have been court-martialed for specific actions, which is similar except that it doesn't quite reach the level where the Queen has to deny responsibility for anything. And there has been one case where the Prime Minister had to disavow an officer--Cromarty had to disavow his cousin Denver.
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Re: Information I'd love to know
Post by cthia   » Fri May 08, 2015 1:52 pm

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SWM wrote:
cthia wrote:Question.

We all know that there were many wholeasses making asshole decisions, but is there a case where Elizabeth actually had to disavow an officer?

What exactly do you mean by disavow?

If I understand what you mean, we don't know of any such cases. We wouldn't know unless it were relevant to the story. I'm sure there have been cases of espionage where the Queen had to disavow people.

We do know of several officers who have been court-martialed for specific actions, which is similar except that it doesn't quite reach the level where the Queen has to deny responsibility for anything. And there has been one case where the Prime Minister had to disavow an officer--Cromarty had to disavow his cousin Denver.

I don't know if I can be any clearer about disavow???

At any rate, it came up several times in text. My most recent recollection of it is when Michelle sent a letter to Elizabeth detailing some of her suspicions as well as a headsup regarding her plans, in case Elizabeth needed to disavow her. (Sorry, cannot quickly put a finger on that passage.)

It also came up again in Shadow of Freedom
"If you think –" Van Dort began, but Terekhov shook his head again, harder.

"Forget it. I didn't spend all those years in Foreign Office service without learning a little bit about how the game's played, Bernardus! The minute you open your mouth as Medusa's officially accredited representative, this stops being a case of a single rogue officer Her Majesty can disavow if she has to. We can't afford to give Tyler and his crew any basis to attack the notion that I acted independently of any orders from any higher authority. Especially since I did!"

Van Dort started to open his mouth, then closed it. Much as he hated to admit it, Terekhov was right. Van Dort's own experience in the politics of his home system of Rembrandt, his decades of work as the founding CEO of the multi-system Rembrandt Association, and his experience working to set up the annexation plebiscite for the entire Talbott Cluster all supported the same conclusion.

Which didn't mean he had to like it.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Information I'd love to know
Post by Dauntless   » Fri May 08, 2015 2:59 pm

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cthia Ithink you are getting your books mixed up.

the passage about Michelle informing Elizabeth before she moves on Mesa was the last page of shadow of freedom.

the terekov and van dort quote came from storm from the shadows, i think. possibly late in Shadow of Saganami but i'm fairly sure it was storm from the shadows
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Re: Information I'd love to know
Post by cthia   » Fri May 08, 2015 3:08 pm

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Dauntless wrote:cthia Ithink you are getting your books mixed up.

the passage about Michelle informing Elizabeth before she moves on Mesa was the last page of shadow of freedom.

the terekov and van dort quote came from storm from the shadows, i think. possibly late in Shadow of Saganami but i'm fairly sure it was storm from the shadows

Doh! Thanks Dauntless for the correction. I don't know how I flubbed that, except that I'm at work and busy. But it's no excuse as I took it directly from Flint's page...
http://www.ericflint.net/index.php/2008 ... nippet-20/

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Information I'd love to know
Post by stewart   » Sun May 10, 2015 10:54 pm

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JeffEngel wrote:"cthia"]Question.

We all know that there were many wholeasses making asshole decisions, but is there a case where Elizabeth actually had to disavow an officer?

Anton Zilwicki after the Manpower Incident is practically in that category - sort of beached forever due to the political mess that caused and getting Manticoran dirty laundry aired so publicly while a serving officer.[/quote]

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We don't see Anton Zilwicki's Board of Inquiry, but the charges against him -- Insubordination, and Disobedience of a Direct Order by his Superior -- could have put him as a guest of the JAG for several years.
The fact that he provided evidence that put several of the Youngs in prison is why he was put on 1/2 pay.

-- Stewart
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Re: Information I'd love to know
Post by Hutch   » Mon May 11, 2015 8:26 am

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JeffEngel wrote:
cthia wrote:Question.

We all know that there were many wholeasses making asshole decisions, but is there a case where Elizabeth actually had to disavow an officer?

Anton Zilwicki after the Manpower Incident is practically in that category - sort of beached forever due to the political mess that caused and getting Manticoran dirty laundry aired so publicly while a serving officer.


The only other example I can think of was Honor herself, after the Casamir raid (in the short story "Let's Dance"), where her actions were disavowed to 'keep up appearances' with the Silesians. Honor was stripped of her command of the Hawkwing as a result.

Of course, that she was then quickly enrolled in the ATC (the Crusher) tended to negate that.... 8-) :)
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Re: Information I'd love to know
Post by Armed Neo-Bob   » Mon May 11, 2015 10:01 am

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stewart wrote:
JeffEngel wrote:"cthia"]Question.

We all know that there were many wholeasses making asshole decisions, but is there a case where Elizabeth actually had to disavow an officer?

Anton Zilwicki after the Manpower Incident is practically in that category - sort of beached forever due to the political mess that caused and getting Manticoran dirty laundry aired so publicly while a serving officer.


-------------

We don't see Anton Zilwicki's Board of Inquiry, but the charges against him -- Insubordination, and Disobedience of a Direct Order by his Superior -- could have put him as a guest of the JAG for several years.
The fact that he provided evidence that put several of the Youngs in prison is why he was put on 1/2 pay.

-- Stewart[/quote]

Actually, while he was relieved for cause by Adm. Young, I suspect the data load and countercharges he brought against his superiors did mitigate things a bit. He was probably never formally charged, just put on half pay and left there as a political hot potato--anaethma to the relatives of the people in his lists. My guess is that the Janacek Admiralty probably declined to bring formal charges--he might have put his entire data load out on the public nets!

Rob
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Re: Information I'd love to know
Post by cthia   » Wed May 20, 2015 7:23 pm

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Regarding the Tales of Honor comics, are there six of those now? And is the retelling of On Basilisk Station due out in November simply going to be OBS in comic form?

Which I'd like to have since OBS is my favorite in the series.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Information I'd love to know
Post by SWM   » Thu May 21, 2015 8:38 am

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cthia wrote:Regarding the Tales of Honor comics, are there six of those now? And is the retelling of On Basilisk Station due out in November simply going to be OBS in comic form?

Which I'd like to have since OBS is my favorite in the series.

Tales of Honor Volume 1 (numbers 1-5) were the retelling of On Basilisk Station. They will be compiled into a graphic novel in November.

Tales of Honor Volume 2 number 0 was a special edition that came out on Free Comics Day a few weeks ago. Volume 2 will feature original stories rather than retellings.

There is also a Facets of Honor webcomic, of which two issues are out.
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