Thinking about King Zhames

n7axw wrote:Claw has almost nothing to bring to the table apart from its location relative to the Gulf of Dohlar. ... Its harbor possibilities are limited and not all that well protected.

Weird Harold wrote:

n7axw wrote:Claw has almost nothing to bring to the table apart from its location relative to the Gulf of Dohlar. ... Its harbor possibilities are limited and not all that well protected.

That's true for sailing ships, but not so much true for steamships. IIRC, the harbor itself is very good as a protected harbor, it is just difficult to sail in or out of unless conditions are just right. It was lightly defended for that reason, but the shoals that make sailing difficult will force steamships under the guns of a decent shore battery with modern Charisian artillery.

Isilith wrote:The problem with the harbor was, as you mentioned, for sailing ships. It will be no problem for a steam ship.

Also, the water issue... is not a problem. A "lack of water" was what the locals tried to peddle to the Charisians when they first showed up, to keep them from taking over and using it as a base. It said right after that, that there was plenty of water, and that the locals were over blowing that trying to keep them out. There was enough water that they were planting some veggies to supplement their food.

Weird Harold wrote:
That's true for sailing ships, but not so much true for steamships. IIRC, the harbor itself is very good as a protected harbor, it is just difficult to sail in or out of unless conditions are just right. It was lightly defended for that reason, but the shoals that make sailing difficult will force steamships under the guns of a decent shore battery with modern Charisian artillery.

n7axw wrote:Claw has almost nothing to bring to the table apart from its location relative to the Gulf of Dohlar. ... Its harbor possibilities are limited and not all that well protected.

PeterZ wrote:South Harchong lies on the equator. It has approximately 50% more land area than Dohlar. More of its land area lies closer to the equator than Dohlar. Dohlar has half of the population of the entire Harchong Empire living on about 10% to 15% of the land area. All that suggests to me that SH produces much of the Empires food and is home to a significant portion of the Empires total population.

While Desnair has a larger population than SH, its economy and social matrix are less able free up extra hands for non-food producing activities. Further, the stratification of Desnairi society means fewer of its residents have a stake in Desnair as a nation. They are ruled subjects and will remain ruled subjects regardless of which set of aristocrats happen to rule. It might be argued that SH would treat their new subjects better than Desnairi nobles. Heavy garrisons might not be needed.

So, after the CoGA loses its monopoly on setting international policy, SH might well be able defeat Desnair. Especially if Siddermark distracts Desnair suitably. Siddermark was stopped at Silkiah by Zion. Absent Zion's interference, Siddermark might well take the Gulf of Jahras and the isthmus around it.

Yes this is all speculation. I believe it is sound speculation. Because even if Zion falls to the allies, North Harchong will strive against the allies. While a direct hot war might continue with the allies, the allies will not mind SH taking territory from Desnair. If Zion does not fall completely the diplomatic calculus of cold war becomes even trickier.

n7axw wrote:

PeterZ wrote:My only quibble with your analysis, Don, is the assumption of a lack of central authority. The Empire is ruled by bureaucrats. I would be shocked if there was not a regional headquarters for the bureaucracy. That could function effectively as a source of central authority or at least a method of exercising central authority.

It does require coopting the bureaucracy and that depends on how thoroughly Charis cuts Howard from Haven.

That could work and it would put SH a bit further ahead of the gane than I've been assuming. They could appoint an emperor to servr as a unifying symbol.

My presumption had the EOC in control of the Gulf of Dohlar after the Haarahlds and ironclads arrive and the land bridge betwwen Howard and the Havens under allied control.

Don

isaac_newton wrote:Something about Delferak that I am not quite clear about from the map at Fifth Imperium - national and province boundary designations not being v clear - is it totally surrounded by Desnair?

Who do Myratha and Ashton belong to? They have single names like the other South Harchong provinces, unlike the Duchy this, Barony that in Desnair?

JeffEngel wrote:

isaac_newton wrote:Something about Delferak that I am not quite clear about from the map at Fifth Imperium - national and province boundary designations not being v clear - is it totally surrounded by Desnair?

Who do Myratha and Ashton belong to? They have single names like the other South Harchong provinces, unlike the Duchy this, Barony that in Desnair?

They're almost certainly not Desnairian. Myratha (sometimes Maratha) is referred to in OAR as having a Prince, but that's still ambiguous between it being an independent nation and it being a province of the Harchong Empire with a ruler with that title. If that prince is a Harchong provincial ruler, it would indicate a considerable provincial autonomy though - the reference is to allowing the Dohlaran navy to use their ports on the way to Armageddon Reef. That's an unusual call for a provincial ruler not to have to kick upstairs, but maybe he kicked it to his Bishop Executor instead and considered that (reasonably) enough authority.

Ashton hasn't received even that much to help us figure out if it is an independent nation of a province of Harchong.

isaac_newton wrote:Something about Delferak that I am not quite clear about from the map at Fifth Imperium - national and province boundary designations not being v clear - is it totally surrounded by Desnair?

Who do Myratha and Ashton belong to? They have single names like the other South Harchong provinces, unlike the Duchy this, Barony that in Desnair?

Isilith wrote:Selkar and Myratha were referenced as having princes/being princedoms. Beyond that, as you say, we have no idea.

Just from how the map is drawn, I had assumed Ashton was a province of Delfarahk. After all, Delf has 83 million people, they sort of need that land area to have a population that high.