long range laser

It's all handwaving. Whatever the author wants it to be.

I am still convinced that the biggest problem with long range shots would be more aiming than beam diffusion. Having an unguided weapon able to hit a target as small as a missile pod at 5 light minutes would require a pointing accuracy measured in the width of subatomic particles. Not exactly feasible.

crewdude48 wrote:I am still convinced that the biggest problem with long range shots would be more aiming than beam diffusion. Having an unguided weapon able to hit a target as small as a missile pod at 5 light minutes would require a pointing accuracy measured in the width of subatomic particles. Not exactly feasible.

Plus, y'know, at 5 light minutes, the pods would've launched long before the beam arrived. Technically, I suppose you could be putting shots in the right area and just spray and pray, essentially, but in the current combat environment, that's not really going to do much, if any, good - by the time you can kill pods, the first dozen or so salvoes are already on their way.

Rakhmamort wrote:Reviving this thread and changing the target of the system defense lasers from enemy ships protected by sidewalls to pods that are deployed by said enemy ships...

what would be the effectiveness of say SD strength grasers (or stronger) vs missile pods 5-6 light minutes out.

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possible defense against LACs too. just saturate the area along the vectors that the enemy lacs (once they have them) are going to use. the damage might be minor but even if the beams are diffused enough that they can only slightly melt at such long range instead of penetrate armor, the LACs' sensors would be F'd up.

In addition to the points made by others, I would point out that a beam at 5 light-minutes would be at least 32000 times weaker than the same beam at 500,000 km. It could easily be much weaker than that, perhaps 150,000 times weaker or more, depending on how the beam focusing works.

The best point, though, is that David has suggested that the biggest problem in beam targeting at 1,000,000 km or more is in aiming.

SWM wrote:In addition to the points made by others, I would point out that a beam at 5 light-minutes would be at least 32000 times weaker than the same beam at 500,000 km. It could easily be much weaker than that, perhaps 150,000 times weaker or more, depending on how the beam focusing works.

An actual 8 meter gamma ray laser won't follow the inverse square law. The spot size expands very, very slowly due to the very short wavelength and the huge diameter of the gamma ray laser emitter.

Last I heard there was vague handwaving that said that a honorverse 8 meter diameter graser was not an actual 8 meter diameter gamma ray laser.

kzt wrote:

SWM wrote:In addition to the points made by others, I would point out that a beam at 5 light-minutes would be at least 32000 times weaker than the same beam at 500,000 km. It could easily be much weaker than that, perhaps 150,000 times weaker or more, depending on how the beam focusing works.

An actual 8 meter gamma ray laser won't follow the inverse square law. The spot size expands very, very slowly due to the very short wavelength and the huge diameter of the gamma ray laser emitter.

Very very slowly, but it still converges to an inverse square law--as long as you account for the apparent focal point of the beam.

kzt wrote:

SWM wrote:In addition to the points made by others, I would point out that a beam at 5 light-minutes would be at least 32000 times weaker than the same beam at 500,000 km. It could easily be much weaker than that, perhaps 150,000 times weaker or more, depending on how the beam focusing works.

An actual 8 meter gamma ray laser won't follow the inverse square law. The spot size expands very, very slowly due to the very short wavelength and the huge diameter of the gamma ray laser emitter.

SWM wrote:Very very slowly, but it still converges to an inverse square law--as long as you account for the apparent focal point of the beam.

I proposed something similar to this eons of posts ago. I remember a response that "Space is Big, Really Really Big."

So, it should come as no surprise that I like the idea.

I'd like to note, that we should tread lightly in looking at the problem through the tech-lens of our present capabilities in that area.

Remember, in the Honorverse there will be access to materials and engineering capabilities beyond what we now know or have. Critical materials available throughout the entire spectrum(npi) of the science of lasers. Focusing lens (which I would imagine could be a natural crystalline material or huge diamonds of a sort. Production techniques to engineer the larger diameter lens. Focal length, etc.

But.

I would assume that in the Honorverse is conquered the inherent problem with todays lasers. That from the outset there is no such thing as a true "point source." Probably not true in the Honorverse.

At the Honorverse power/frequency levels described, there is no possible way for the lens of any laser to be diamond or any known physical substance today, or even in theory of today. This is frankly the main reason why laser based defenses will never work without use once and throw away lenses. We are already hard up against power levels for known materials. We are today getting "around" the problem by using prisms and splitting the power beams up and then combining them later.

The lens is not material. It is "other".

Relax wrote:At the Honorverse power/frequency levels described, there is no possible way for the lens of any laser to be diamond or any known physical substance today, or even in theory of today. This is frankly the main reason why laser based defenses will never work without use once and throw away lenses. We are already hard up against power levels for known materials. We are today getting "around" the problem by using prisms and splitting the power beams up and then combining them later.

The lens is not material. It is "other".

They're using gravitic lensing, supposedly. Might be two-stage lensing - one at the weapon mount, and the other the 'gunport' in the sidewall.

The passing through the sidewall gunport may also be part of the reason that the beams don't maintain the degree of coherency that kzt points out they should.
At least ... that would fly for broadside mounts, but it wouldn't fly for (pre bow-wall/buckler) spinal and pre-sidewall mounts.
Nevermind that last then.

Relax wrote:At the Honorverse power/frequency levels described, there is no possible way for the lens of any laser to be diamond or any known physical substance today, or even in theory of today. This is frankly the main reason why laser based defenses will never work without use once and throw away lenses. We are already hard up against power levels for known materials. We are today getting "around" the problem by using prisms and splitting the power beams up and then combining them later.

The lens is not material. It is "other".

Indeed.

But I wasn't considering diamonds of Earth. I said "diamonds of a sort." Referencing research about laser tech being augmented by special "manmade diamonds" which controlled the lattice structure and augmented it with intentional specific impurities which further "altered" the lattice structure which benefited laser technology. It was a very technical program which I was barely following because I was busy and came in on the program late. The intentional impurities references the only two natural impurities that a diamond can take on, because of the tightness of its atoms. Boron and nitrogen. They were experimenting with manmade impure substances with specific qualities.

Also it is possible that the idea of a diamond can be formed by intense pressures of elements other than carbon. Hence, *materials in the Honorverse on remote planets in harsh regions of space.

Think outside the box.


I assumed that the specific diamond sought in "Congo" the movie had something to do with, "forming under particular conditions." But I may as well have been in error and it was just the size and shape of the Congo diamond that made it perfect for that laser system.

*Rare important materials, found in harsh regions of space, is what I imagine is the secret behind MAlign technology.

The materials fuel the physics.