HFQ Official Snippet #23

Isilith wrote:

It's nice to see that manufacturing is spreading across the Empire, especially the explosives. I'm not sure why there's a persistent rumor that there will be a major industrial accident in HFQ though. There has never been a major industrial accident in Charis during the entire war, although there has been a major case of sabotage.

There is? I have read all through the forums and I haven't seen any rumors of such.

Even Corisande is getting into the action, with its rubber being used in bicycle tires. Emerald is a good central place for manufacturing, and I've thought that its lack of mountains and water power must be the reason that we haven't seen heavy industrialization introduced there before, given that it's the third oldest member of the EoC and much closer to Charis than Chisholm. Steam engines are going to allow all sorts of manufacturing everywhere that coal is available, so the entire Empire should be pitching in soon. Of course that means the TLs will be sending samples and design specifications for all sorts of technology to Zion, which probably can't afford to build it!

Actually, I did see this addressed somewhere in the forums. We have no idea if Emerald has mountains ( and the rain/water such would bring to a tropical island continent.

Emerald, like Tarot, like Zebediah, and so on... have not had their topographies filled in by the evil genius.

Too bad the contents of the stolen briefcase are so useful in the CoGA's iron foundries...

So we will get railroads - after the war. Shotguns will soon be in the building queue, and after some early snafus in cartridge production (which makes me worry for BGV) the allies will have the church boys seriously outgunned. The damage those pistols will do when the enemy closes with the ICA makes me cringe! Those poor Harchongese...

On the stolen briefcase... that was one of the biggest "God gives the CoGA the plans" deus ex machina moments I have ever seen an author use. It annoyed me far more than Vlad showing up in OotD. There is zero chance someone with plans that important would be walking around without being heavily guarded. None, zero chance... except the author said it happened. ( Mind you, I LOOOOOOVE David Webers books, but that was a "I said it happened, so it did" moment. )

The cartridge ammunition is another pet peeve. When it was first brought into production Howsmyn said it was so far ahead of the rifles and pistols that he would make enough to get by, and then scale back production on the ammunition until the weapons could catch up. The next thing we ever hear about it is him saying "we don't have enough!!!!"... yeah, what happened there?

I believe DW wrote in the "lost briefcase" as a way to give the info to the Go4. Merlin knows that if they start to use the technology it will open the flood gates. So I think Merlin or Caleb intentionally sent the briefcase the way they did with the intentions of the Go4 getting the info so they too would start down the slippery slope of innovation that will force them to break the prescriptions.

mhicks wrote:

I believe DW wrote in the "lost briefcase" as a way to give the info to the Go4.

I agree.

Merlin knows that if they start to use the technology it will open the flood gates. So I think Merlin or Caleb intentionally sent the briefcase the way they did with the intentions of the Go4 getting the info so they too would start down the slippery slope of innovation that will force them to break the prescriptions.

Oooo...I seriously doubt that. There have been a number of times Merlin regretted that the CoGA were innovating quite as fast as they were. Their new rifle and PT boats are just two examples.

~Tonto

Tonto Silerheels wrote:mhicks wrote:

I believe DW wrote in the "lost briefcase" as a way to give the info to the Go4.

I agree.



~Tonto

It was absolutely an "I say it happens" moment. Even though it goes against common sense to let someone be walking around, UNGUARDED, with a briefcase full of state secrets.

Isilith wrote:

It was absolutely an "I say it happens" moment. Even though it goes against common sense to let someone be walking around, UNGUARDED, with a briefcase full of state secrets.

I'm not as convinced as you. All of that information was going to be given to Siddarmarkian industrialists--designers, machinists, assemblers, inspectors. There is no way to assure that not one of those people conduct espionage for Zion. So, if it's going to get out, why advertise that you have something important and secret? It's only important to protect the lives of the information carriers once you discover that their lives are going to be targeted.

~Tonto

Isilith wrote:

Tonto Silerheels wrote:mhicks wrote:

I believe DW wrote in the "lost briefcase" as a way to give the info to the Go4.

I agree.



~Tonto

It was absolutely an "I say it happens" moment. Even though it goes against common sense to let someone be walking around, UNGUARDED, with a briefcase full of state secrets.

I'm sorry this upsets you so.

I'd point out a few things, though.

First, I never said he wasn't guarded at all. He and the Siddarmarkians with him were all important to the industrialization of Siddarmark and, in a war in which assassination is part of the game, they had bodyguards. They didn't have an entire platoon of infantry along, however; only a relatively small number for what was supposed to be a short, routine walk to their destination.

Second, the decision had been made to avoid drawing attention to him and the Siddarmarkians he was with by assigning the aforementioned platoon of guards to him. Clearly, that didn't work out too well in this instance, but it was a Siddarmarkian decision (since they were in Siddar City), and on the face of it --- especially in a society which doesn't have photography to pass out pictures to hit men or cellphones to coordinate ambushes on the fly --- it actually made sense.

Third, neither Caleb nor Merlin were consulted when he set out on his final walk, and even Merlin (and Owl and Nahrmahn) can't be everywhere at once all the time. They didn't know he was going until he'd already gone and been killed. For that matter, I'm not sure Merlin was even in the city at the time! I'd have to consult my timeline notes to be positive he wasn't off being someone else at the fatal moment.

Fourth, the only reason the assassination and snatch were possible was because one of Clyntahn's top operatives --- a man who'd avoided detection by both Aivahand Owl/Narhmahn, at least to that point --- figured out who he was and set a mob on him and his companions. A mob big enough to overwhelm the bodyguards and get him close enough to personally kill the bearer of the plans and steal them. And he had no idea whatever what he was grabbing when he grabbed them; it was pure opportunism.

The increased purely Caharisian security laid on in the form of the Marines was added after the fact and is on top of the Siddarmarkian security, not instead of it.

I may not have spelled this out sufficiently in the novel for you, but it was always been part of my thinking/understanding of the scene, and I'd thought it was sufficiently obvious that there must have been some security in place that I chose to use wordcount (in what was already a really long book, writing about other things.


I will cheerfully admit that it was necessary to the story I'm telling for the Church to "get a leg up," but I deny that it was the result of a totally implausible decision on the good guys's part. Besides, sometimes, in that ancient and wise aphorism, shit happens, and this time it happened to the Allies. Indeed, to me it would be even more implausible if none of the unpredictable events which bedevil both sides in any conflict this grand broke in the Church's favor!

runsforcelery wrote: SNIP


I'm sorry this upsets you so.

I'd point out a few things, though.

SNIP


I will cheerfully admit that it was necessary to the story I'm telling for the Church to "get a leg up," but I deny that it was the result of a totally implausible decision on the good guys's part. Besides, sometimes, in that ancient and wise aphorism, shit happens, and this time it happened to the Allies. Indeed, to me it would be even more implausible if none of the unpredictable events which bedevil both sides in any conflict this grand broke in the Church's favor!

Hi RFC - thanks for that. Nice to see you back on the forums a bit more

It's suprising in real world history how often that sort of thing does seem to happen! e.g. Lee's battle plans for Antitam wrapped round 3 cigars.

mhicks wrote:

n7axw wrote:Now on to the snippet...

First, the locomotive is interesting, although it seems a bit much to invest too much effort on it before the war is over. But given that conversation Sharleyan had with her advisors back in LAMA, it's not hard to see why she is interested in it.

Moving on, we now know where the the initial issue of M96es and their pistol counterparts went...to BGV! We already had hints of that before. And those who were worried about the ammo supply can feel at least partially vindicated even if our favorate industrialist seems acutely aware of the problem and is moving to rectify the matter.

On a more positive note, we see the EOC diversifying the locations of its industrial plant, in part to Emerald, so that a catrastrophe at one location doesn't completely shut things down.

Finally, the bad guys got more out of their intelligence haul than I expected. It turns out that the primary benefit didn't have to do with steam engines, but with blast furnaces and helping the church umprove their steel production... The question remains, however, if there will be time for the church to fully implement what they have learned before the AOG armies are taken out of play and the alliance closes in.

From the description of what the Dohlarans are up to, it certainly makes good sense to give a very strong priority to isolating Dohlar and knocking her out of the war.

Don

I believe the importance of the railroad will be seen when thy export it to the mainland to help keep the supplies moving fast on the main roads that run along the canals. the description of the roads and the fact that the elevation gain can't bee to steep for the locks to work for the canals means that the high roads are perfect for rails to be laid with little to no prep work other than a layer of gravel and the wood ties to hold the rails. The army will be able to lay miles of track a day once the product can be shipped or manufactured on the mainland. Think of how fast the rail roads will expand on the mainland next to all the canals and the roads that service them. No need to blast the mountains for footing, no need for tunnels, it was all prepared for by the arch angels them selves.

Hi mhicks,

I think you have a valid point...for the next war. Right now the allies are straining every muscle to expand their industrial plant to produce what they need to arm the men they can recruit so they can get them into the field. I just don't see them adding railroads on top of that at least at the moment.

Don

n7axw wrote:Now on to the snippet...

First, the locomotive is interesting, although it seems a bit much to invest too much effort on it before the war is over. But given that conversation Sharleyan had with her advisors back in LAMA, it's not hard to see why she is interested in it.

Moving on, we now know where the the initial issue of M96es and their pistol counterparts went...to BGV! We already had hints of that before. And those who were worried about the ammo supply can feel at least partially vindicated even if our favorate industrialist seems acutely aware of the problem and is moving to rectify the matter.

On a more positive note, we see the EOC diversifying the locations of its industrial plant, in part to Emerald, so that a catrastrophe at one location doesn't completely shut things down.

Finally, the bad guys got more out of their intelligence haul than I expected. It turns out that the primary benefit didn't have to do with steam engines, but with blast furnaces and helping the church umprove their steel production... The question remains, however, if there will be time for the church to fully implement what they have learned before the AOG armies are taken out of play and the alliance closes in.

From the description of what the Dohlarans are up to, it certainly makes good sense to give a very strong priority to isolating Dohlar and knocking her out of the war.

Don

mhicks wrote:I believe the importance of the railroad will be seen when thy export it to the mainland to help keep the supplies moving fast on the main roads that run along the canals. the description of the roads and the fact that the elevation gain can't bee to steep for the locks to work for the canals means that the high roads are perfect for rails to be laid with little to no prep work other than a layer of gravel and the wood ties to hold the rails. The army will be able to lay miles of track a day once the product can be shipped or manufactured on the mainland. Think of how fast the rail roads will expand on the mainland next to all the canals and the roads that service them. No need to blast the mountains for footing, no need for tunnels, it was all prepared for by the arch angels them selves.

n7axw wrote:Hi mhicks,

I think you have a valid point...for the next war. Right now the allies are straining every muscle to expand their industrial plant to produce what they need to arm the men they can recruit so they can get them into the field. I just don't see them adding railroads on top of that at least at the moment.

Don

As far as improving/expanding the Imperial industrial infrastructure, I suspect that Chisholm will get railroads early, so as to bypass the obstructive nobles who are sitting on the waterways.

Kytheros wrote:
As far as improving/expanding the Imperial industrial infrastructure, I suspect that Chisholm will get railroads early, so as to bypass the obstructive nobles who are sitting on the waterways.

I would agree that if there is going to be an exception, that one will probably be it.

Don

Kytheros wrote:
[snip]

As far as improving/expanding the Imperial industrial infrastructure, I suspect that Chisholm will get railroads early, so as to bypass the obstructive nobles who are sitting on the waterways.

I thought immediately of that possibility when railways were introduced, and I am really looking forward to reading about the reactions of the obstructive diehards if railroads are built in Chisholm. Not only do they fail to block the development of the resources, but now they don't make a penny out of it, and there's the possibility of the more adventurous inhabitants of their lands moving to neighbouring territories to earn better money. And if enough leave, who brings in the crops then?