How will it work out in Desnair?

n7axw wrote:Actually in my previous post, I had intended to say that the Dohlarans would have the best shot at reproducing the ammo if not the rifles themselves. But that guy in the Temple Lands, Brother Lynchyn (sp) is really pretty sharp.

Actually, once the inquisition is out of the way, both Dohlar and the Temple Lands will probably surge out ahead of the other COGA countries. I would expect SH to be next with NH and Desnair competing for tail end charlie...

Don

I think you're probably right. Assuming that Clyntahn doesn't Do Something about the Dohlaran and Temple Lands innovators to change that.

Louis R wrote:I'm rather curious about just where the notion of quantities of ammunition being captured along with the M96s came from.

Last I looked, the Charisians hadn't run mad, and only a madman ships ammunition on anything but dedicated transport or handles it at any but dedicated facilities before it gets to the TO. Even then ammo never meets weapon until both are put in the hands of the end user - immediately before intended use.

The snippet implies that multiple cargo vessel were taken from a convoy that included troopships, and while ammo was not specifically mentioned as being captured, RFC used the phrase "among other things" when describing what the Desnairans had captured.
It is, after all, somewhat pointless to send troops, weapons, and no ammo for the weapons you send.

Kytheros wrote:

Louis R wrote:I'm rather curious about just where the notion of quantities of ammunition being captured along with the M96s came from.

Last I looked, the Charisians hadn't run mad, and only a madman ships ammunition on anything but dedicated transport or handles it at any but dedicated facilities before it gets to the TO. Even then ammo never meets weapon until both are put in the hands of the end user - immediately before intended use.

The snippet implies that multiple cargo vessel were taken from a convoy that included troopships, and while ammo was not specifically mentioned as being captured, RFC used the phrase "among other things" when describing what the Desnairans had captured.
It is, after all, somewhat pointless to send troops, weapons, and no ammo for the weapons you send.

Specifically:

The captured cargoes, however, had provided Desinair [sic] with five thousand precious M96 rifles, almost a hundred three-inch mortars, and two entire batteries of four-inch rifled field guns . . . among other things.

The ellipsis there suggests that the other things were significant, rather than, say, 100,000 silk thongs for sale in Siddarmark. It's not conclusive, but I'd take it as highly likely that that includes at least some ammunition for at least some of those weapons, or if not, other things of military concern. (Even relatively innocuous ICA uniforms could help Temple false-flag operations, for examples.)

So the ammunition assumptions are still assumptions and shouldn't be taken as established, but as assumptions go, they're not bad.

It's also possible, of course, that the militarily significant losses to Charis there apart from weapons aren't militarily significant gains to the privateers. Canned food, for instance, probably won't do Desnair much good so far from any army, but it may mean some Allied operation in coming months will have to be called off or scaled back.

Guys, please be careful about unmarked spoilers!

The capital city, i believe still has a few ships from the fleet they were building for the war. Also, the other major city of Geyra has some of those ships still there. THey also have the dock and shipyards and other military industies necessary for any war effort.
We know most of the available military has been wreaked, if these cities were eliminated, then the country would be limited in what they can produce. So just removing those 2 cities, or eliminating as part of the military logistical system.
They might have other production sites along the coasts, but with it all dispersed, they would be limited by access to resources. It would slow down their development and force them to gain the materials they need from other sources.

SYED wrote:The capital city, i believe still has a few ships from the fleet they were building for the war. Also, the other major city of Geyra has some of those ships still there. THey also have the dock and shipyards and other military industies necessary for any war effort.
We know most of the available military has been wreaked, if these cities were eliminated, then the country would be limited in what they can produce. So just removing those 2 cities, or eliminating as part of the military logistical system.
They might have other production sites along the coasts, but with it all dispersed, they would be limited by access to resources. It would slow down their development and force them to gain the materials they need from other sources.

You are right to point out those 20 galleons still at Desnair the City.

But what I wonder, and so far as I know there is no textev one way or the other, is how much of Desnair's military was lost in Siddarmark. We know that virtually the entire army with Harless was lost including what limited supply of modern weapons Desnair possessed.

We know that prior to the SoS, Siddarmark had 1.2 million under arms, not counting militia. Deanair's population is somewhat greater than Siddarmark's. So it doesn't seen out of line to assume an army at least similar in size. If that is the case, considering the 275,000 Harless lost in Siddarmark, it doesn't seem unreasonable to assume an army conservatively guessed of about 700,000 left behind in Desnair, virtually all of whom would be armed with their prewar weapons. Most of those would be cavalry armed with horsebows and lances and would be accustomed to the doctrines of shock upon which Desnair traditionally relied.

Just my guess anyway.

Don

desnair military would be spread out to ensure the lower classes are kept under control, and nobles do not get any ideas.
The church has be helping to fund the manufactory infrastructure to produce the material needed. SInce it was supposed to be a naval issue, the facilities would be in ports to supply the ships and allow for water based logistics. THe larger the ports, the more it was developed. The capital is a certainty.
When that gulf that held most of their fleet fell, the docks and yards destroyed as well as the stores cost them huge fortunes. also, the loss of a capital would be huge declaration.

SYED wrote:desnair military would be spread out to ensure the lower classes are kept under control, and nobles do not get any ideas.
The church has be helping to fund the manufactory infrastructure to produce the material needed. SInce it was supposed to be a naval issue, the facilities would be in ports to supply the ships and allow for water based logistics. THe larger the ports, the more it was developed. The capital is a certainty.
When that gulf that held most of their fleet fell, the docks and yards destroyed as well as the stores cost them huge fortunes. also, the loss of a capital would be huge declaration.

Most of what was lost didn't cost Desnair much of anything except the lives of the people who became casualties durung the battle. The church had financed pretty much the whole thing.

A thought I've had about those sailors that were released without parole after Jahras' fleet was destroyed... I wonder what percentage of them ended up on those privateers currenty raiding EOC shipping...

Don

n7axw wrote:

SYED wrote:desnair military would be spread out to ensure the lower classes are kept under control, and nobles do not get any ideas.
The church has be helping to fund the manufactory infrastructure to produce the material needed. SInce it was supposed to be a naval issue, the facilities would be in ports to supply the ships and allow for water based logistics. THe larger the ports, the more it was developed. The capital is a certainty.
When that gulf that held most of their fleet fell, the docks and yards destroyed as well as the stores cost them huge fortunes. also, the loss of a capital would be huge declaration.

Most of what was lost didn't cost Desnair much of anything except the lives of the people who became casualties durung the battle. The church had financed pretty much the whole thing.

A thought I've had about those sailors that were released without parole after Jahras' fleet was destroyed... I wonder what percentage of them ended up on those privateers currenty raiding EOC shipping...

Don

Hard to say - they're trained sailors, and they would likely either want revenge or to sail again out of fear of encountering another Charisian warship.

That said, being a privateer/commerce raider is probably going to be a better deal for them than staying with the regular Desnairan navy/battle fleet. Better pay, almost certainly safer - after all, they're mostly going to go after lightly armed merchies, not looking for warships to fight.

Kytheros wrote:
Hard to say - they're trained sailors, and they would likely either want revenge or to sail again out of fear of encountering another Charisian warship.

That said, being a privateer/commerce raider is probably going to be a better deal for them than staying with the regular Desnairan navy/battle fleet. Better pay, almost certainly safer - after all, they're mostly going to go after lightly armed merchies, not looking for warships to fight.

I was just thinking about the irony of Rock Point's deal after the battle. He sent back the personell of the surrendered ships after the battle in exchange for the destruction of the fleet base, the building slips and all the support structure around the area.

The unintended consequence: A fairly large group of trained personell are available to go privateering against Charisian commerce.

I wonder if he would make the same deal again knowing that.

Don

n7axw wrote:

Kytheros wrote:
Hard to say - they're trained sailors, and they would likely either want revenge or to sail again out of fear of encountering another Charisian warship.

That said, being a privateer/commerce raider is probably going to be a better deal for them than staying with the regular Desnairan navy/battle fleet. Better pay, almost certainly safer - after all, they're mostly going to go after lightly armed merchies, not looking for warships to fight.

I was just thinking about the irony of Rock Point's deal after the battle. He sent back the personell of the surrendered ships after the battle in exchange for the destruction of the fleet base, the building slips and all the support structure around the area.

The unintended consequence: A fairly large group of trained personell are available to go privateering against Charisian commerce.

I wonder if he would make the same deal again knowing that.

Don

The alternative was to kill them all. There was no way the ICN could have taken those sailors captive. Had Rock Point continued the engagement, more of his own sailors would have died. Even knowing what he knows now, Rock Point would likely have made the same decision.