Thinking about King Zhames

Poor old Zhames... He's always seemed like a bit of a victim to me. He wants to be loyal to Mother Church and agrees to close his ports and confiscate Charisian merchantmen... but the inquisition takes over, botches the whole thing and gets a whole bunch of people killed. Zhames' reward? He gets his water front burned and his merchant marine swept from the seas.

Then out of the goodness of his heart he gives shelter to Hektor's refugee children. His reward? He gets a whole bunch of his guardsmen killed, gets his palace mostly blowm up and another port burned out.

The thing of it is, he's not wanting to quarrel with Charis. He just keeps getting caught in the middle The inquisition pulls something and Zhames pays the penalty...

So I'm wondering how long it will take him to figure out the real problem...or if he ever will.

Don

n7axw wrote:Poor old Zhames... He's always seemed like a bit of a victim to me. He wants to be loyal to Mother Church and agrees to close his ports and confiscate Charisian merchantmen... but the inquisition takes over, botches the whole thing and gets a whole bunch of people killed. Zhames' reward? He gets his water front burned and his merchant marine swept from the seas.

Then out of the goodness of his heart he gives shelter to Hektor's refugee children. His reward? He gets a whole bunch of his guardsmen killed, gets his palace mostly blowm up and another port burned out.

The thing of it is, he's not wanting to quarrel with Charis. He just keeps getting caught in the middle The inquisition pulls something and Zhames pays the penalty...

So I'm wondering how long it will take him to figure out the real problem...or if he ever will.

Don

From the discussion with his wife the last time we saw him, I think he's cluing in on it. What to do about it - how he is supposed to back off from his commitment to the monster in Zion - is a tough problem.

In a way, he's in a situation a lot like Sharleyan in OAR, though in her case, she appreciated it in foresight while he's had to have it hammered into his people and his own mind: he, his kingdom, and his people are tools in the hands of scum who do not care a bit about them, and he still can't resist.

I suspect he'd be interested in defecting if he got good terms, but unlike Sharleyan, he does not command the kind of love and esteem to carry a nation easily behind him into apostacy. (It won't help that he's carried them into so much butt-kicking and embarrassment already.) And he's on the mainland, surrounded by powers that haven't reached the same conclusions yet.

It would be a godsend if only Rahnyld of Dohlar could put things together as well as Zhames - Dohlar's been used as much, and while Gorath is still intact, Dohlar's honor has been used and defiled by Clyntahn's orders regarding prisoners in a way that Delferahk's has only been mildly tainted. Unfortunately, Rahnyld is not a thoughtful, reflective sort.

One wonders what will happen when Charis claims the Gulf of Dohlar as its possession? Claiming the Islands of the Dohlar bank or even one or two of them as naval bases or military preserves supporting a squadron or two of KH VIIs would effectively free Howard from direct Zion interference. That will be true regardless of what sort of peace develops after this phase of the war.

Left to their own devices South Harchong and Desnair might well duke it out to see who swallows whom. That leaves Delfarahk a tempting dessert for the winner. Should hostilities commence between the biggies on Howard, Delfarahk had better seek Irys' forgiveness and Charisian protection. Nothing less would save them from territorial ambitions loosened by the disintegration of the CoGA's iron fisted authority.

PeterZ wrote:One wonders what will happen when Charis claims the Gulf of Dohlar as its possession? Claiming the Islands of the Dohlar bank or even one or two of them as naval bases or military preserves supporting a squadron or two of KH VIIs would effectively free Howard from direct Zion interference. That will be true regardless of what sort of peace develops after this phase of the war.

Left to their own devices South Harchong and Desnair might well duke it out to see who swallows whom. That leaves Delfarahk a tempting dessert for the winner. Should hostilities commence between the biggies on Howard, Delfarahk had better seek Irys' forgiveness and Charisian protection. Nothing less would save them from territorial ambitions loosened by the disintegration of the CoGA's iron fisted authority.

I think, in the face of the failure of Zion and their own arms against Charis and Siddarmark, South Harchong and Desnair will be mostly occupied in becoming an independent country in SH's case and in remaining just one country in both their cases. They're both empires, after all, with natural tendencies to disintegrate when force fails them.

That should provide some welcome breathing room for reconstruction and reorganization in Delferahk, Dohlar, and Sodar - unless either of the big states manages to stay together by organizing a foreign adventure to attack and absorb a neighbor.

Alternatively, if South Harchong does disintegrate into smaller kingdoms, principalities, and/or republics, Delferahk may have a role as leader of a new "Confederation of Howard", a trade and mutual defense organization among Howard's smaller independent states.

JeffEngel wrote:I think, in the face of the failure of Zion and their own arms against Charis and Siddarmark, South Harchong and Desnair will be mostly occupied in becoming an independent country in SH's case and in remaining just one country in both their cases. They're both empires, after all, with natural tendencies to disintegrate when force fails them.

That should provide some welcome breathing room for reconstruction and reorganization in Delferahk, Dohlar, and Sodar - unless either of the big states manages to stay together by organizing a foreign adventure to attack and absorb a neighbor.

Alternatively, if South Harchong does disintegrate into smaller kingdoms, principalities, and/or republics, Delferahk may have a role as leader of a new "Confederation of Howard", a trade and mutual defense organization among Howard's smaller independent states.

Desnair has a well earned reputation for expansionism. South Harchong has built a wall along their North-West border with Desnair in response to prior Desnairi aggression. The innovations in steel production mentioned in this snippet will further set South Harchong apart from Desnair. When all is said and done, Desnair is going to be hammered from both the North and West after the CoGA comes to terms with Charis in whatever fashion RFC decides.

Your points regarding empires staying together is a good one. South Harchong might well focus its nobles on a short victorious war to keep its nobles' territorial ambitions appeased. Desnairi gold mines will be a tempting inducement to wage war for the mercantile South Harchongese nobility.

Besides, in the brave new world of Charisian domination and an impotent CoGA, how is a loyalist nation to stave off heresy? Why by having wealth and production resources to rival Charis of course. Where to find the needed wealth....hmmm....gold mines....where? Desnair is doomed.

While I would agree that Desnair is weaker in any prolonged confrontation than SH, we won't get that right away. For one thing, it will take SH a while to reorganize after splintering away from the north.

Desnair, on the other hand still has an army, albeit a smaller one now with very few modern weapons. It also still has a central authority which SH doesn't.

So... I wonder if Desnair might consider "a short victorious war" to distract from trouble at home and gather in SH before the latter manages to get organized...

I think they lose if they do, but they might find the prospect tempting.

Don

n7axw wrote:While I would agree that Desnair is weaker in any prolonged confrontation than SH, we won't get that right away. For one thing, it will take SH a while to reorganize after splintering away from the north.

Desnair, on the other hand still has an army, albeit a smaller one now with very few modern weapons. It also still has a central authority which SH doesn't.

So... I wonder if Desnair might consider "a short victorious war" to distract from trouble at home and gather in SH before the latter manages to get organized...

I think they lose if they do, but they might find the prospect tempting.

Don

I can see that too. The only thing limiting Desnairi militarism is Siddermark. If they commit to an aggressive war against South Harchong, the temptation for Siddermark to secure enough Desnairi land to take the entire Gulf of Jahras would be too great.

Taking the Gulf of Jahras would deprive Desnair of a trading outlet. All Gulf of Dohlar trade would have to pass through Charisian, Siddermarkan or Silkiahn hands. Desnair would not participate in the flow of goods through the canals of Mahrosa. This will further separate desnair from Zion and Haven.

If Desnair gets attacked by South Harchong, Siddermark would be very tempted to take the Gulf of Jahras while Desnair is distracted by SH. SH will be tempted because Desnair will deploy to cover the Siddermarkian threat. The weaker Western border will really tempt SH into adventurism.

Ok, all of you who want SH to attack Desnair, I have a few questions for you.

1) Where will SH get an army to do it?
2) Where will SH get a COMPETENT army? ( Remember, the Harchong army was pathetic, and all the newly trained troops are in service to the church now, with no way to get back to SH. )
3) Where will SH get the population to attack Desnair? As Desnair has 150mm people. SH, by itself, is barely a fraction of that in population. ( remember, many of you are talking about SH breaking away and attacking Desnair... really bad proposition )
4) Suppose SH were to somehow manage to win a war with Desnair, where would they come up with the NUMBER of troops required to keep a population of 150mm pacified? ( this is the same problem Charis has with possible military annexations. )

Isilith wrote:Ok, all of you who want SH to attack Desnair, I have a few questions for you.

1) Where will SH get an army to do it?
2) Where will SH get a COMPETENT army? ( Remember, the Harchong army was pathetic, and all the newly trained troops are in service to the church now, with no way to get back to SH. )
3) Where will SH get the population to attack Desnair? As Desnair has 150mm people. SH, by itself, is barely a fraction of that in population. ( remember, many of you are talking about SH breaking away and attacking Desnair... really bad proposition )
4) Suppose SH were to somehow manage to win a war with Desnair, where would they come up with the NUMBER of troops required to keep a population of 150mm pacified? ( this is the same problem Charis has with possible military annexations. )

South Harchong has production capacity. They can manufacture enough breech loading infantry riles, artillery and the attendant ammo to clean Desnair's clock. Desnair might have a huge population, but most of them are serfs/slaves. The Denarii army are drawn from freemen. They do not want to arm their slaves and serfs if they can at all help it. SH manufacturing capability suggests that they have a lower percentage of their population in the slave/serf class. Combine those two facts with the butt kicking their army has already taken and the suggested advantage dissipates quicker than a mirage.

PeterZ wrote:

Isilith wrote:Ok, all of you who want SH to attack Desnair, I have a few questions for you.

1) Where will SH get an army to do it?
2) Where will SH get a COMPETENT army? ( Remember, the Harchong army was pathetic, and all the newly trained troops are in service to the church now, with no way to get back to SH. )
3) Where will SH get the population to attack Desnair? As Desnair has 150mm people. SH, by itself, is barely a fraction of that in population. ( remember, many of you are talking about SH breaking away and attacking Desnair... really bad proposition )
4) Suppose SH were to somehow manage to win a war with Desnair, where would they come up with the NUMBER of troops required to keep a population of 150mm pacified? ( this is the same problem Charis has with possible military annexations. )

South Harchong has production capacity. They can manufacture enough breech loading infantry riles, artillery and the attendant ammo to clean Desnair's clock. Desnair might have a huge population, but most of them are serfs/slaves. The Denarii army are drawn from freemen. They do not want to arm their slaves and serfs if they can at all help it. SH manufacturing capability suggests that they have a lower percentage of their population in the slave/serf class. Combine those two facts with the butt kicking their army has already taken and the suggested advantage dissipates quicker than a mirage.

Ok... so SH can produce weapons... Now, what about everything else I pointed out? No army, no way to train a modern army ( remember, Desnairs Army was MUCH better than the Harchong army ), and nowhere NEAR enough population to fight and OCCUPY a nation that much larger than they are.

Not to mention, they would be trying to do this WHILE attempting to break away from Harchong.