Nitpicking at A Rising Thunder...

kzt wrote:No, the transit takes minutes to navigate the approach lanes, without a wedge or sidewall. You can't do it under missile fire, much less graser fire.

Uh hem. May I suggest a reread of White Haven's transit between Trevors, Manticore, and Basilisk.

Once you do so, you will quickly know your "minutes" is way overblown. Least time interval between SD's is about a minute to two for MWHJ. At this time the SD's transit, switch to impeller drive and maneuver clear of the lane before the second heavy comes down the lane. Therefore the timing is seconds. Now how many of them for a waller is unknown.

In same transit we also have least time transit times for DD's. 2 of them bumped. KABLOOEY! Timing was under a minute as I recall.

PS. WHJ transits. From the reading it would seem that the MWHJ can sustain FAR closer transit times than any other wormhole due to its sheer size. A WHJ like Roullette-Limbo is going to be far slower interval for transit making a MUCH easier job for the DEFENDER unless they do a mass transit.

An obvious solution would be to station most of the wormhole denial ships away from the wormhole. If you have the wormhole englobed from just under maximum effective MK16 range, it would be all but impossible for an attacking force to wipe out the defenders. And if the RMN ships are not destroyed right away, they should be able to fight most attacking forces off.

Put a couple of LACs or DDs in close to deal with traffic control, and have a few other small boys going back and forth every half hour or so to keep the other side updated.

Relax wrote:

kzt wrote:No, the transit takes minutes to navigate the approach lanes, without a wedge or sidewall. You can't do it under missile fire, much less graser fire.

Uh hem. May I suggest a reread of White Haven's transit between Trevors, Manticore, and Basilisk.

Once you do so, you will quickly know your "minutes" is way overblown. Least time interval between SD's is about a minute to two for MWHJ. At this time the SD's transit, switch to impeller drive and maneuver clear of the lane before the second heavy comes down the lane. Therefore the timing is seconds. Now how many of them for a waller is unknown.

In same transit we also have least time transit times for DD's. 2 of them bumped. KABLOOEY! Timing was under a minute as I recall.

PS. WHJ transits. From the reading it would seem that the MWHJ can sustain FAR closer transit times than any other wormhole due to its sheer size. A WHJ like Roullette-Limbo is going to be far slower interval for transit making a MUCH easier job for the DEFENDER unless they do a mass transit.

To be fair, that's the throughput rate - after the "pipeline" has filled - not the rate the first ship can get through.

Just going from the highest readiness state a hyper generator still takes a few minutes to actual jump you into hyper (or jump you down the wormhole). So that first ship is going to take some time. But the 2nd ship can trigger their generator 10-60 seconds after the first ship (depending on how long the previous transit will shut down the wormhole) timed to peak just as the wormhole blockage clears. So after that first ship is gone you can tightly sequence all the rest.


But if that first ship is under fire it's still sitting there pretty damned vulnerable for a couple minutes.

Relax wrote:

kzt wrote:No, the transit takes minutes to navigate the approach lanes, without a wedge or sidewall. You can't do it under missile fire, much less graser fire.

Uh hem. May I suggest a reread of White Haven's transit between Trevors, Manticore, and Basilisk.

Once you do so, you will quickly know your "minutes" is way overblown. Least time interval between SD's is about a minute to two for MWHJ. At this time the SD's transit, switch to impeller drive and maneuver clear of the lane before the second heavy comes down the lane. Therefore the timing is seconds. Now how many of them for a waller is unknown.

In same transit we also have least time transit times for DD's. 2 of them bumped. KABLOOEY! Timing was under a minute as I recall.

PS. WHJ transits. From the reading it would seem that the MWHJ can sustain FAR closer transit times than any other wormhole due to its sheer size. A WHJ like Roullette-Limbo is going to be far slower interval for transit making a MUCH easier job for the DEFENDER unless they do a mass transit.

That is the spacing between ships. However, each ship is in the process of preparing for the jump for much longer than that. See David's explanation for how long a ship has to sit vulnerable in the transit lane, with sails up. That alone can take up to 3 minutes, depending on the wormhole. And that does not count the period while one sail is up and a weak wedge provides minute acceleration. And the hyper generator has to be raised from "standby" to "operating", which also takes time. And that assumes that the ship has been sitting there just outside the lane, with the hyper generator at "standby" when the enemy comes in. You can't keep the generator at standby all the time. It takes much longer if the generator is in "routine readiness". (We'll assume the generator would not be in "powered down" mode.)

Ok, maybe I have a screw loose, but why the Hell are we talking about sitting in a lane READY to transit instead of how long it takes when EXITING a Wormhole to change to impeller drive and get sidewalls up???

For hyperdrive use, we have SD times and I think DD times for initiation times if we really want to for maneuvering through a WHJ transit. Of course can still have impeller drive up and sidewalls under this scenario, until one is ready to switch to W-sail and hyperdrive to transit.

crewdude48 wrote:An obvious solution would be to station most of the wormhole denial ships away from the wormhole. If you have the wormhole englobed from just under maximum effective MK16 range, it would be all but impossible for an attacking force to wipe out the defenders. And if the RMN ships are not destroyed right away, they should be able to fight most attacking forces off.

Put a couple of LACs or DDs in close to deal with traffic control, and have a few other small boys going back and forth every half hour or so to keep the other side updated.

I think most of the wormhole pickets at any given moment are going to be in stealth and at a distance.
And the ships not in stealth aren't going to be sitting in one place all the time, they're going to change location every so often.


Plus, remember, if you want to shoot somebody coming through the wormhole, they're going to come out under sails, not the wedge, and with sidewalls down. Sit a light second or two out and above/below the lane rotated to have a broadside bearing on it, and if you don't want somebody coming in, then, you can punch through the unarmed dorsal/ventral surfaces.

Kytheros wrote:I think most of the wormhole pickets at any given moment are going to be in stealth and at a distance.
And the ships not in stealth aren't going to be sitting in one place all the time, they're going to change location every so often.


Plus, remember, if you want to shoot somebody coming through the wormhole, they're going to come out under sails, not the wedge, and with sidewalls down. Sit a light second or two out and above/below the lane rotated to have a broadside bearing on it, and if you don't want somebody coming in, then, you can punch through the unarmed dorsal/ventral surfaces.

What the effective range stealth works at? Iirc, it works at a range of multiple light minutes, not light seconds.

kzt wrote:What the effective range stealth works at? Iirc, it works at a range of multiple light minutes, not light seconds.

For what against what?

An RD against alerted SLN SD Sensors about 10,000 kms.

A RMN RD against RHN sensors ~10-20 light seconds(post-Thunderbolt), IIRC.

An Shrike against SLN RD sensors less than 1,000,000 kms.

An SLN SD against a Roland or SAG-C good question. I have no idea.

Not really a meaningful question without a lot of background. That is just a few of the examples shown in the books.

Remember post Thunderbolt RHN sensors were 10 times better at detecting than PRN sensors.

Just saying,
T2M

crewdude48 wrote:An obvious solution would be to station most of the wormhole denial ships away from the wormhole. If you have the wormhole englobed from just under maximum effective MK16 range, it would be all but impossible for an attacking force to wipe out the defenders. And if the RMN ships are not destroyed right away, they should be able to fight most attacking forces off.

Put a couple of LACs or DDs in close to deal with traffic control, and have a few other small boys going back and forth every half hour or so to keep the other side updated.

Nice - brief and covered the approach I'd use. A few LACs are more than enough to cover the terminus itself, maybe with one "picket" DD showing the flag to turn away any merchies that "didn't get the memo". The remaining ships are there to rotate into the basket and to make sure that any SLN ships that try to jump in and take the terminus back are going to pay dearly for it. Imagine an SN admiral and his BC squadron jumping in to "take out the picket", not spotting enough ships [they're not going to go all-fire until they find the rest of the GA ships], and then discovering what it feels like to be on the receiving end of what, two pods per towing LAC under full control of the SAG'C, and THEN you get to deal with the LACs themselves. Another repeat of First Hancock anyone?

crewdude48 wrote:An obvious solution would be to station most of the wormhole denial ships away from the wormhole. If you have the wormhole englobed from just under maximum effective MK16 range, it would be all but impossible for an attacking force to wipe out the defenders. And if the RMN ships are not destroyed right away, they should be able to fight most attacking forces off.

Put a couple of LACs or DDs in close to deal with traffic control, and have a few other small boys going back and forth every half hour or so to keep the other side updated.

This is what we call a recipe for defeat in detail. You have cleverly placed your ships such that if the SLN jumps a perimeter ship the rest are out of effective range. Which means you get to watch them blow up part of your squadron and then escape back to hyperspace.

Can I request the next clever plan?