The RMN's new construction fleet and what it means.

Duckk wrote:Again, R&D was continuing unabated. What High Ridge and Janacek did was pause construction which was under way and cancel construction for which funds had already been allocated. Those funds were then freed up for pork barrel projects. Remember that the Star Kingdom technically still remained at war - with all the emergency appropriations, tariffs, and taxes that were implemented - even while Janacek was busy reducing the size of the fleet. That's a vast amount of money even without Janacek touching the R&D programs which he specifically did not touch.

I think this statement is quite amusing from a reality perspective. It is always nice to know all these reminders that this is a work of panacea utopian fiction.

First budget item in the real world that always gets axed in the federal budget is R&D. Why? There are no contracts that need to be broken as there are in production with all of their stiff penalties.

Realistically: Pausing the construction of those ships should have cost the admiralty a LOT of money.

Yeah, the economics of the honorverse are not exactly the strong point of the series.

Real world, if you cancel production all the skilled workers go get new jobs and resuming production is a huge nightmare. But as you have already paid for all the long lead time major items, it doesn't even save much money.

Relax wrote:


I think this statement is quite amusing from a reality perspective. It is always nice to know all these reminders that this is a work of panacea utopian fiction.

First budget item in the real world that always gets axed in the federal budget is R&D. Why? There are no contracts that need to be broken as there are in production with all of their stiff penalties.

Realistically: Pausing the construction of those ships should have cost the admiralty a LOT of money.

Except all the monies for construction had been allocated 4 or 5 years before. So would they cost to break. Not really with the caveat without looking at the contracts. Yes I have been involved with an R & D program and do understand much of what you are saying(of course said program has been cancelled). Watching the movement of funds when restructuring occurred is an amusing spectator sport.

Trying to picture what the costs are and the savings are is interesting when things like the long lead items are most likely already installed.

Of course a lot of the money saved is going to be in pipe fitters and welders equivalents ahow mush is there really. Though closing the very slow working shipyards is where the real savings are at. I think.

Yes it is RFC's world and I am quite content that he at least nods at reality. Unlike true space Opera like Moon or "Doc" Smith.

Just my opinion of course,
T2M


PS it is funny. I am listing to WoH right now while painting the house is a bonus.

Painting: Just painted my Exterior Denver house. Dodging the snowstorms. 35F one day, 75 the next.

Of course it has to happen exactly the way you say it has to happen. There cannot possibly be any differing circumstances as to why this departs from what you determine is real. Of course it has to work the way you say it works, because nothing ever happens due to freak reasons. So thus I bow to you, Arbiter of Reality! Please, bestow your wisdom on us on how the world works so that everything happens according to your divine will.

The Army keeps trying to close the only US tank plant for a few years. The drawback is that the industrial base experts state that this essentially means you are out of the tank building business for about 5 years after you decide to start making tanks as all your skilled labor gets other jobs, moves away or retires without teaching anyone their job. So when you go to start up work there isn't anyone to do the work, so you now need to start training a whole new workforce.

And it isn't just the tank assembly plant, this includes all the specialized components.

So yeah, you can quickly save a bunch of money by shutting down production, throwing a lot of people out of work and bankrupting the supply chain, but there are consequences to this.

kzt wrote:The Army keeps trying to close the only US tank plant for a few years. The drawback is that the industrial base experts state that this essentially means you are out of the tank building business for about 5 years after you decide to start making tanks as all your skilled labor gets other jobs, moves away or retires without teaching anyone their job. So when you go to start up work there isn't anyone to do the work, so you now need to start training a whole new workforce.

And it isn't just the tank assembly plant, this includes all the specialized components.

So yeah, you can quickly save a bunch of money by shutting down production, throwing a lot of people out of work and bankrupting the supply chain, but there are consequences to this.

ULA (United Launch Alliance) just had an article on their switching to 3D printed parts for the current launchers and the next generation design. It seems one of their largest issues is buying parts for 2 rockets that each only launch ~6 times a year. Without paying huge cost penalties, they are continually finding themselves at the bottom of the their provider's queue.

Retooling to make 6-12 custom, high precision parts annually, has got to be expensive. No wonder launchhers cost so much.

If you wait years between production, how many suppliers will have gone out of business, refuse to re-enter business with you, or jack up the parts costs to insane amounts, because hiring someone else and having them retool, retrain, and recertify would cost even more?

I'm halfway between Lima and the former Warren Tank Plant, so we get to hear all the news and gripping - what I really want to know is why in the nuclear age, having your 2 tank plants ~100 miles from each other is considered redundancy?

Potato wrote:Of course it has to happen exactly the way you say it has to happen. There cannot possibly be any differing circumstances as to why this departs from what you determine is real. Of course it has to work the way you say it works, because nothing ever happens due to freak reasons. So thus I bow to you, Arbiter of Reality! Please, bestow your wisdom on us on how the world works so that everything happens according to your divine will.

You know, expounding on examples here in the real-world properly bracketing heavy sarcasm therefore putting me in my place is how one should properly use the internet...

Sarcasm with no backing just makes one look... [_____]

Potato wrote:http://archive.defensenews.com/article/20140111/DEFREG02/301130009/Pentagon-Seeks-Protect-R-D-Funding-15-Budget

You mean this part?
"R&D spending accounts bore the greatest percentage of Pentagon’s sequestration cuts in 2013 since DoD leaders opted to shift money into operations and maintenance accounts. The upcoming fiscal year 2015 budget provides one of the first opportunities for Hagel to make strategic choices and build a budget that fits within the mandates of the $521 billion budget cap."