CLAC's in Home Fleet

--snipping--

stewart wrote: I would suspect Terekhov will remain until a stable government sets up, the trials start (or complete) and likely retain the CLAC and 1 division of DD's, sending the other DD division and the other 3 Sag-C CA's back to Montana.
-- Stewart

Going to Stewart's first point, I think you're right about the thoughts, wrong about the retained ships. I think he'll leave one Sag-C with the best captain in his group, with all remaining pods stashed, and maybe a few LACs, which would be a superior force but similar to what Honor gave Sidemore. The LAC, remaining Sag-C's, and the Roland DDs will be sent back to a forward position, likely Montana, because Terekhov knows that they may be needed for similar ops as soon as other verge freedom fighters are discovered.

kzt wrote:

n7axw wrote:This might be an overly optimistic pov... Revolutions have a very poor record for producing positive results in places that don't have a track record of participatory government, Mobius being a case in point. Without long term outside help, the cure could turn out worse than the original disease.

Highly optimistic. The previous government had reasonable support, they always do. Planets are big, with an enormous population. The fact that someone has a bunch of guys with guns does not mean they have broad popular support or can produce a government with broad popular support. It especially does not mean that they WILL produce a government with broad popular support when they have a bunch of guys with guns.

I'm not sure I agree with you, kzt, on the 'reasonable support'. It was more reminiscent of the old USSR, where the population had been beaten down so much that they were just satisfied with surviving day-to-day. That is a very fragile 'support' and textev indicated that once the revolution started it did gain widespread support very quickly (or the SLN wouldn't have had to kill those towns).

That said, again using the old USSR as an example, I would expect every repressed political thought, from Monarchy to Anarchy, to suddenly find it's voice and begin demanding things be changed the way they want.

Which will be diametrically opposite from everybody elses thoughts, who will also be demanding changes.

Michael Breidenbach will have some interesting times. That he apparently is a excellent organizer, a solid leader, and is the one who got the Manties to blow most of the old government to smithereens (at least in the eyes of the Mobious population) will help.

But for the first few years, it will be a wild and wooly ride.

Best advice I could give is import a bunch of Havenite diplomats recommended by President Prichard....if anyplace knows how to transistion between a totalitarian state and democracy (and has made the mistakes along the way), those folks do.

But Therekov will be coming back to Montana soonest, I agree...there are still a large number of "Presidents for life" who think they are more ruthless than he is and need to be 'educated'....

Hutch wrote:
Michael Breidenbach will have some interesting times. That he apparently is a excellent organizer, a solid leader, and is the one who got the Manties to blow most of the old government to smithereens (at least in the eyes of the Mobious population) will help.

If Michael survived it would indeed help, especially if he has done his homework on the aftermath of revolutions as well as he did on staging them. However we have no textev demonstrating that he survived. We only know that he is overdue and missing.

Don

Hutch wrote:"kzt"]"n7axw"]
This might be an overly optimistic pov... Revolutions have a very poor record for producing positive results in places that don't have a track record of participatory government, Mobius being a case in point. Without long term outside help, the cure could turn out worse than the original disease.

Highly optimistic. The previous government had reasonable support, they always do. Planets are big, with an enormous population. The fact that someone has a bunch of guys with guns does not mean they have broad popular support or can produce a government with broad popular support. It especially does not mean that they WILL produce a government with broad popular support when they have a bunch of guys with guns.[/quote]

I'm not sure I agree with you, kzt, on the 'reasonable support'. It was more reminiscent of the old USSR, where the population had been beaten down so much that they were just satisfied with surviving day-to-day. That is a very fragile 'support' and textev indicated that once the revolution started it did gain widespread support very quickly (or the SLN wouldn't have had to kill those towns).

That said, again using the old USSR as an example, I would expect every repressed political thought, from Monarchy to Anarchy, to suddenly find it's voice and begin demanding things be changed the way they want.

Which will be diametrically opposite from everybody elses thoughts, who will also be demanding changes.

Michael Breidenbach will have some interesting times. That he apparently is a excellent organizer, a solid leader, and is the one who got the Manties to blow most of the old government to smithereens (at least in the eyes of the Mobious population) will help.

But for the first few years, it will be a wild and wooly ride.

Best advice I could give is import a bunch of Havenite diplomats recommended by President Prichard....if anyplace knows how to transistion between a totalitarian state and democracy (and has made the mistakes along the way), those folks do.

But Therekov will be coming back to Montana soonest, I agree...there are still a large number of "Presidents for life" who think they are more ruthless than he is and need to be 'educated'.... [/quote]

----------

Another source (and closer) might, surprisingly, be Montana (maybe even the infamous Steven Westman) or the Reconciliation Party on Kornati -- Montana has a STRONG tradition of independence, constitutional government and individual rights (and even right hooks). Kornati, at least after Vuk Rajkovic inherited the presidency, has a parliamentary tradition and has recent experience in bloodying its nose with internal issues. Sometimes that can be a very good learning experience.

-- Stewart

stewart wrote:

Another source (and closer) might, surprisingly, be Montana (maybe even the infamous Steven Westman) or the Reconciliation Party on Kornati -- Montana has a STRONG tradition of independence, constitutional government and individual rights (and even right hooks). Kornati, at least after Vuk Rajkovic inherited the presidency, has a parliamentary tradition and has recent experience in bloodying its nose with internal issues. Sometimes that can be a very good learning experience.

-- Stewart

Putting Steve Westman an in a diplomatic or mediation role beggars the imagination...but you know, it might work! He's certainly capable of delivering the right hook that gets their attention!

Don

Here is what I see Terakov doing after a month or two. He will more than likely leave his extra battalion behind until the TQG can get there to act as peacekeepers, with orbital support of at least 2-4 squadrons of LAC's and 2-4 DD's under the command of at least a Captain(SG) The DD's can serve as a combination of messenger and intercept force to pick-up any merchants or warships that pass through.

saber964 wrote:Here is what I see Terakov doing after a month or two. He will more than likely leave his extra battalion behind until the TQG can get there to act as peacekeepers, with orbital support of at least 2-4 squadrons of LAC's and 2-4 DD's under the command of at least a Captain(SG) The DD's can serve as a combination of messenger and intercept force to pick-up any merchants or warships that pass through.

-------------

My original thoughts on Terekov remaining had more to do with
1) as assigned Senior Officer, he would see the operation thru to completion.
2) one of the reasons for his assignment was his Foreign Office experience. I suspect a foundation for an alliance or perhaps basing agreements (similar to Sidemore).
3) Breaking up the Verge Satrapies into viable, independent systems or clusters is a good goal in it's own right.

-- Stewart

stewart wrote:

saber964 wrote:Here is what I see Terakov doing after a month or two. He will more than likely leave his extra battalion behind until the TQG can get there to act as peacekeepers, with orbital support of at least 2-4 squadrons of LAC's and 2-4 DD's under the command of at least a Captain(SG) The DD's can serve as a combination of messenger and intercept force to pick-up any merchants or warships that pass through.

-------------

My original thoughts on Terekov remaining had more to do with
1) as assigned Senior Officer, he would see the operation thru to completion.
2) one of the reasons for his assignment was his Foreign Office experience. I suspect a foundation for an alliance or perhaps basing agreements (similar to Sidemore).
3) Breaking up the Verge Satrapies into viable, independent systems or clusters is a good goal in it's own right.

-- Stewart

If Terekov does stick around Mobius for a while, he can help them pst the initial chaos that revolutions leave in their wake. That would be a worthwhile use of his skill set.

Don

n7axw wrote:"stewart"]"saber964"]Here is what I see Terakov doing after a month or two. He will more than likely leave his extra battalion behind until the TQG can get there to act as peacekeepers, with orbital support of at least 2-4 squadrons of LAC's and 2-4 DD's under the command of at least a Captain(SG) The DD's can serve as a combination of messenger and intercept force to pick-up any merchants or warships that pass through.

-------------

My original thoughts on Terekov remaining had more to do with
1) as assigned Senior Officer, he would see the operation thru to completion.
2) one of the reasons for his assignment was his Foreign Office experience. I suspect a foundation for an alliance or perhaps basing agreements (similar to Sidemore).
3) Breaking up the Verge Satrapies into viable, independent systems or clusters is a good goal in it's own right.

-- Stewart[/quote]

If Terekov does stick around Mobius for a while, he can help them pst the initial chaos that revolutions leave in their wake. That would be a worthwhile use of his skill set.

Don[/quote]


--------------

My thoughts (and I think Mike Henke's) exactly

-- Stewart

stewart wrote:My original thoughts on Terekov remaining had more to do with
1) as assigned Senior Officer, he would see the operation thru to completion.
2) one of the reasons for his assignment was his Foreign Office experience. I suspect a foundation for an alliance or perhaps basing agreements (similar to Sidemore).
3) Breaking up the Verge Satrapies into viable, independent systems or clusters is a good goal in it's own right.

-- Stewart

n7axw wrote: If Terekov does stick around Mobius for a while, he can help them pst the initial chaos that revolutions leave in their wake. That would be a worthwhile use of his skill set.

Don

--------------

"stewart wrote:
My thoughts (and I think Mike Henke's) exactly

-- Stewart

I can see both your points, but remember, there are probably a dozen or more systems primed by the MAlignment to go off (we know of at least two others and another one that revolted prematurely), and more that will be set off on their own as word of what is happening in the SL begins to spread (you tink the oligarchs in New Tuscany are a little nervous right now?)

The point is, Therekov and his skills are needed in a lot of places, and Mobious at least has recognized and it appears fairly popular (or they never could have organized a planet-wide attack) leaders of the rebellion to build something around.

Other systems may not be so lucky. And leaving more than 1-2 destroyers, when you may have multiple committments and too few ships (an issue that is only going to get worse out in the Verge), is a luxry you simply cannot afford.

IMHO as always. YMMV.