Genetic tinkering

The E wrote:

Daryl wrote:...or recombinate DNA of tree cats and hexapumas to create telepathic marines with the physique of hexapumas and the intelligence of tree cats.

They could do that, but they won't. Little thing called the Beowulf Code kinda prohibits it. The Honorverse (or at least the parts of it that aren't mesan alignment) view all but the most subtle tweaks with suspicion and distrust; given how unsuccessful attempts to create supersoldiers have been in the past, this is probably understandable.

SWM wrote:I wish we knew more about the Beowulf Code. I think the Beowulf Code is a code of medical ethics, which might mean it only applies to human genetic material. It might possibly include other intelligent species, which would include treecats, but we don't have any textev for that. Or there might be other Codes we haven't heard about that apply to non-human genetic material.

Still, I agree that Beowulf probably would not perform experiments to produce a hexapuma (or any other animal) with intelligence (whether using treecat DNA or not).

I wholeheartedly agree. And I would personally think that Beowulf's code is probably all inclusive across species, at least implied. Because the same horrific outcome can occur in other species as well. Even though the 'pumas aren't sentient creatures doesn't mean that Beowulf would want to create a catastrophe within another species. It would almost certainly be covered within the bylaws of animal rights activists.

Besides, it would seemingly fall under the umbrella of a very bad idea. Why would you risk raising the intelligence of a predator the likes of a 'puma? Didn't movies like "Dawn of the Planet of the Apes," survive into the archives?

As far as Mesa performing telempathic research, I think textev mentioned that "live" 'cat specimens are required for that.

cthia wrote:Besides, it would seemingly fall under the umbrella of a very bad idea. Why would you risk raising the intelligence of a predator the likes of a 'puma? Didn't movies like "Dawn of the Planet of the Apes," survive into the archives?

Yeah, turning up the intelligence of a predator as big and ferocious as a 'puma doesn't sound like the greatest idea I've ever heard.

Consider how dangerous they are now- while they are pretty much dumber than a box of rocks. Now imagine if they were smart enough to actually develop a plan or think things out rather than their normal impulsive action/reaction. They are already an apex predator that haven't decided that humans are on the top of the food chain, let's not give them anything that they can use against us.

Deep Blue Sea- the movie where they upped the intelligence on the great white shark with the predictable results- is probably a more apt movie comparison. Primates are already smarter than 'pumas- probably much closer to treecats than 'pumas.

Don't forget chimps are problem solvers. I remember watching nature show on Jane Goodall and she went on about a chimp she named "Mike". Mike was an Omega which means he was on the bottom of the totem pole, basically Mike got what ever was left over as far as food (if someone didn't steal it from him first) and beaten by the other males in the troop. Until one day Mike got hold of a pair of empty gas cans and he started banging them and rolling them on the ground and generally scarring the hell out of all the other chimps in his troop. From that day on Mike was the Alpha male for the troop a position he held until his death 15 or so years later.

saber964 wrote:The Hexapuma-Treecat mix would scare the hell out of me. Your talking of making a being that will potentially weigh upwards of 8-900kg (17-1900lbs) with razor sharp claws that are 10-15cm (4-6in) in length.

----------------

Shades of Morgoth and Sauron creating Orcs from captured Elves and men.

I think it would fall outside Beowulf's codes.
Mesa has already tried capturing / 'catnapping (pun intended) Treecats in the past. They always suicided.
I don't think even Mesa would be so foolish to design a Thinking Hexapuma.....

-- Stewart

stewart wrote:

saber964 wrote:The Hexapuma-Treecat mix would scare the hell out of me. Your talking of making a being that will potentially weigh upwards of 8-900kg (17-1900lbs) with razor sharp claws that are 10-15cm (4-6in) in length.

----------------

Shades of Morgoth and Sauron creating Orcs from captured Elves and men.

I think it would fall outside Beowulf's codes.
Mesa has already tried capturing / 'catnapping (pun intended) Treecats in the past. They always suicided.
I don't think even Mesa would be so foolish to design a Thinking Hexapuma.....

-- Stewart

Actually, I'd call it shades of Pern, and the dragons of Pern being genengineered up from the dragonets. Almost exactly like Pern and the dragons. Except in Pern it was a good idea and a necessity. Here, it isn't necessary, and is probably a terrible idea.


One of the issues in Mesa trying to reverse-engineer telempathy genetics from treecats is that the 'cats require some exclusive to Sphinx bio compound that has insect repellant qualities on Sphinxian critters. Mesa may well have tried out the 'right' combination of treecat genes to generate telempathy/telepathy, but without the purple thorn or Sphinxian celery, they had no way to know.

I believe "uplifting" a hexipuma, or the amount of engineering needed to vastly increase the size of a treecat would be right out for the Beowolf code.

the impression I got is that their gengineering limits are limited to mostly fairly minor tweeks, with the exception of "adaption" mods and even then they tend to err on the side of conservative adjustments.

lets say for example they were asked to engineer up a variety of projects.

cows that produce more and better milk, no problem
cows that can consume "grass" on grayson and filter out the toxic heavy metals, they likely would strongly consider it, but likely go along.

an "upgrade" to zero g like the quaddies from the Vorkosagen verse (by lois McMaster Bujold) doubt it.

upgrades to allow people to breathe water... mabie
upgrades to allow humans to survive Vacuum for even a few minutes... possibly, but unlikely IMO

making something like the "dogboys" in "rifts"? they would likely consider killing whoever suggested it.

something like the "pern" dragons from the "fire lizards" I am basically at least 90-99% certain the answer would be a no way.

I wonder about genetic research into increasing the telempathic abilities of the 'cats. Increased range or strength. As a possible side-effect, perhaps a higher number of memory singers. Maybe even a male memory singer? Hey, human males have been known to be capable of hitting the high notes as well, without castration too.

HB of CJ wrote:Was not there something in one of the story lines that said that for the celery to be really good and yummy it had to be grown locally? Something in the native soil that was concentrated in the celery? Yumm yumm. HB of CJ (old coot) Cats are cool. Treecats would be extra cool.

-----------------

Re-read the short story in Beginnings and A Beautiful Friendship -- Stephanie's mother Marjorie Harrington had to gen-modify celery to get it to grow on Sphinx. The Gen-mod was what made it similar to the native purple thorn that the 'Cats were already using.

Effective "full circle"

-- Stewart

stewart wrote:

HB of CJ wrote:Was not there something in one of the story lines that said that for the celery to be really good and yummy it had to be grown locally? Something in the native soil that was concentrated in the celery? Yumm yumm. HB of CJ (old coot) Cats are cool. Treecats would be extra cool.

-----------------

Re-read the short story in Beginnings and A Beautiful Friendship -- Stephanie's mother Marjorie Harrington had to gen-modify celery to get it to grow on Sphinx. The Gen-mod was what made it similar to the native purple thorn that the 'Cats were already using.

Effective "full circle"

-- Stewart

Yes and No. 'Cats like celery from anywhere but only the gen-mod Sphinxian celery has the 'vitamin' which was modified by Marjory Harrington. Also Dr. Harington was modifying another plant that may have the 'vitamin' namely the 'Purple Star' in Fire Season which was (speculatively) a cross of Purple Thorn and a Star Fruit.

saber964 wrote:"stewart"]"HB of CJ"]Was not there something in one of the story lines that said that for the celery to be really good and yummy it had to be grown locally? Something in the native soil that was concentrated in the celery? Yumm yumm. HB of CJ (old coot) Cats are cool. Treecats would be extra cool.

-----------------

Re-read the short story in Beginnings and A Beautiful Friendship -- Stephanie's mother Marjorie Harrington had to gen-modify celery to get it to grow on Sphinx. The Gen-mod was what made it similar to the native purple thorn that the 'Cats were already using.

Effective "full circle"

-- Stewart[/quote]
Yes and No. 'Cats like celery from anywhere but only the gen-mod Sphinxian celery has the 'vitamin' which was modified by Marjory Harrington. Also Dr. Harington was modifying another plant that may have the 'vitamin' namely the 'Purple Star' in Fire Season which was (speculatively) a cross of Purple Thorn and a Star Fruit.[/quote]


--------------

My comment was to emphasize that Marjorie's mod of the Terran Celery into a Sphinxian variety (1) made a more accessible source of the purple thorn "vitamin" and (2) was one of the mechanisms that brought Climbs Quickly and Stephanie together and (3) with the Sphinxian celery more available, led to Nimitz' stronger mind glow after bonding and Honor's (with her Gen-mod) empathic ability.

Much of what we see is traceable, at least in part, to Marjorie's actions.

-- Stewart