Life on some of Safehold's larger islands

SYED wrote: THose islands have limited resources on their own, but imperial and commercial resources may allow for them trukly be grown and strengthened.

THe empire has invested a lot in hteir own farms to feed the republic and themselves, so in the future, these foods can instead be shipped to these islands, to aid in their food suplies.

I think everyone is forgetting that Terraforming isn't complete on Safehold and there are large areas of "unsanctified lands" everywhere. I suspect that Islands that have small populations have more "unsanctified land" than more populated areas, so the will need food-aid and other support to expand even a little.

Weird Harold wrote:

SYED wrote: THose islands have limited resources on their own, but imperial and commercial resources may allow for them trukly be grown and strengthened.

THe empire has invested a lot in hteir own farms to feed the republic and themselves, so in the future, these foods can instead be shipped to these islands, to aid in their food suplies.

I think everyone is forgetting that Terraforming isn't complete on Safehold and there are large areas of "unsanctified lands" everywhere. I suspect that Islands that have small populations have more "unsanctified land" than more populated areas, so the will need food-aid and other support to expand even a little.

Right. I suspect these islands are pretty much self sufficient foodwise, but to sustain a larger population would either need to import food or terraform. If needed, a project for the EOC after the war.

Don

What Wierd Harold said - the reason why the Raven Lands are so low on population relative to area simply suggests that they have been much less sanctified/terraformed than the equivalent places in Northern Siddarmark etc.

I can't imagine Charis has much spare time or energy to worry about low population islands right now - provided they are not hostile to Charis, or being used as bases for Zion to base commerce-raiding cruisers etc. I can see the occasional coaling station post being put on some of these at some point, but beyond that will have to wait for peace, I think

It's quite likely that the islands that fall naturally within the EoC's sphere of influence will vote to join the EoC eventually, since Cayleb and Sharley aren't normally conquering types. Corisande was the sole exception, but Prince Hektor didn't really give Cayleb a choice. The leaders of the other islands eventually joined out of self preservation, offers of marriage to tie their countries together, or both. (Zebediah was the sole exception, but it had already been conquered by Corisande.)

As has others have noted, large portions of the sparsely populated islands are probably unconsecrated, unterraformed ground. They can't grow Terran food crops, and humans can't digest native plants. (Although the native animals have no problem taking a bite out of humans and their herd animals.) I wonder if a slash lizard gets a tummy ache or dies if he eats someone, depending on his size? Oddly enough humans can digest quite a lot of the ocean's fish, although I'd bet those fish are based on Terran prototypes that Shan-Wei developed. I doubt you could eat a kraken without being poisoned!

Silverlode island is largely unterraformed, with a very small population, and it belongs entirely to Cayleb. (And aren't we glad it does!)

The advantages of duty-free trade with the islands of the Empire, along with the soft hand of the CoC may be all that's required for those islands to join the fold eventually. The Trellheim pirates may be forced into the fold if they refuse to behave themselves.

Siddarmark grew in much the same way, as most of its central and western provinces were enclaves and countries who voted to join the Republic. The southernmost regions of Siddarmark were formerly Desnairan, and quite likely were more than happy to see their imperial betters slashed to ribbons by the vaunted Siddarmarkan pikes!

It's unfortunate that the CoGA stepped in and established Silkiah as a buffer zone, since if Siddarmark had controlled the Salthar canal, the ICN would be sending ironclads through it already...

McGuiness wrote:It's quite likely that the islands that fall naturally within the EoC's sphere of influence will vote to join the EoC eventually, since Cayleb and Sharley aren't normally conquering types. Corisande was the sole exception, but Prince Hektor didn't really give Cayleb a choice. The leaders of the other islands eventually joined out of self preservation, offers of marriage to tie their countries together, or both. (Zebediah was the sole exception, but it had already been conquered by Corisande.)

The Raven Lands at least are already getting along with Charis somewhat, so they're successfully detached from the Temple. Clyntahn isn't inclined to cut anyone slack for being in an untenable position when it comes to resisting Charis, or even for resisting Charis only modestly. I think the Duchy of Fallos is already quietly getting along, and Hammer and Windswept Islanders have to be in the same boat. (Tryon's Islanders too - if there are any.)

As has others have noted, large portions of the sparsely populated islands are probably unconsecrated, unterraformed ground. They can't grow Terran food crops, and humans can't digest native plants. (Although the native animals have no problem taking a bite out of humans and their herd animals.) I wonder if a slash lizard gets a tummy ache or dies if he eats someone, depending on his size? Oddly enough humans can digest quite a lot of the ocean's fish, although I'd bet those fish are based on Terran prototypes that Shan-Wei developed. I doubt you could eat a kraken without being poisoned!

It could also be that Safehold humans (and other terrestrial species) were provided with gut flora that can digest some products of Safehold's ecosystem. Clearly not all of them, else there wouldn't be a distinction to make between consecrated and unconsecrated ground.

Silverlode island is largely unterraformed, with a very small population, and it belongs entirely to Cayleb. (And aren't we glad it does!)

The advantages of duty-free trade with the islands of the Empire, along with the soft hand of the CoC may be all that's required for those islands to join the fold eventually. The Trellheim pirates may be forced into the fold if they refuse to behave themselves.

Yeah. It is, after all, the same mechanism by which Corisande was brought into the fold.... The Empire hasn't grown by purposeful aggrandizement, just by snatching up enemies and one marriage alliance. I imagine it is quite happy to extend its sphere of influence by trade and treaty agreements, or even informal arrangements (as with the Raven Lands), without encouraging even voluntary requests for entry. That said, I don't think (e.g.) a Desnairian attempt to seize the Duchy of Fallos would get much less vigorous a smack-down as an attempt to seize Tarot.

Siddarmark grew in much the same way, as most of its central and western provinces were enclaves and countries who voted to join the Republic. The southernmost regions of Siddarmark were formerly Desnairan, and quite likely were more than happy to see their imperial betters slashed to ribbons by the vaunted Siddarmarkan pikes!

It's unfortunate that the CoGA stepped in and established Silkiah as a buffer zone, since if Siddarmark had controlled the Salthar canal, the ICN would be sending ironclads through it already...

Oooh, that is a happy thought! Still though, had Silkiah become the southernmost Siddarmark province and the border secured there, it would still have likely fallen to the Sword of Schueler and languish now under the formal boot of Desnairian oppression, rather than almost exactly that but a bit more subtly.

JeffEngel wrote:

Siddarmark grew in much the same way, as most of its central and western provinces were enclaves and countries who voted to join the Republic. The southernmost regions of Siddarmark were formerly Desnairan, and quite likely were more than happy to see their imperial betters slashed to ribbons by the vaunted Siddarmarkan pikes!

It's unfortunate that the CoGA stepped in and established Silkiah as a buffer zone, since if Siddarmark had controlled the Salthar canal, the ICN would be sending ironclads through it already...

Oooh, that is a happy thought! Still though, had Silkiah become the southernmost Siddarmark province and the border secured there, it would still have likely fallen to the Sword of Schueler and languish now under the formal boot of Desnairian oppression, rather than almost exactly that but a bit more subtly.

Nah, if the CoGA hadn't stepped in to create Silkiah as a buffer between Siddarmark and Desnair, Desnair would be a greatly weakened nation, and chunks of it would have been snapped up by Siddarmark in one or more of the wars that the creation of Silkiah forestalled. Perhaps Desnair would have even collapsed into civil war or separate, warring states.

Kytheros wrote:

JeffEngel wrote:Oooh, that is a happy thought! Still though, had Silkiah become the southernmost Siddarmark province and the border secured there, it would still have likely fallen to the Sword of Schueler and languish now under the formal boot of Desnairian oppression, rather than almost exactly that but a bit more subtly.

Nah, if the CoGA hadn't stepped in to create Silkiah as a buffer between Siddarmark and Desnair, Desnair would be a greatly weakened nation, and chunks of it would have been snapped up by Siddarmark in one or more of the wars that the creation of Silkiah forestalled. Perhaps Desnair would have even collapsed into civil war or separate, warring states.

I suspect that at a minimum Siddarmark would have taken North Watch, which would have provided a relatively narrow front with lousy roads that would have been difficult for whatever remained of Desnair to use in its invasion.

With Silkiah in Siddarmarkan hands, the SoS may or may not have captured Silkiah province, but the result would probably have been the destruction of the Salthar canal. The rebels would have wanted it intact as a route for Desnair to invade, while the Stohnar supporters would have destroyed every lock they could to prevent an invasion. The Desnairans would be moving through a heavily populated province of Siddarmark for the first time, so they could have supported their army by living off the land. They'd also have been opposed by whatever Siddarmarkan forces remained loyal, but as LaMA proved, pikes were no match for artillery.

However, without the precedent of the CoGA dictating terms to end the war between Siddarmark and Desnair a century earlier, the Go4 would have had a much more difficult time excluding the largest mainland realm from participating in the military buildup for the jihad. The Desnairans might have faced field artillery identical to their own when they attempted to invade Silkiah...

McGuiness wrote:However, without the precedent of the CoGA dictating terms to end the war between Siddarmark and Desnair a century earlier, the Go4 would have had a much more difficult time excluding the largest mainland realm from participating in the military buildup for the jihad. The Desnairans might have faced field artillery identical to their own when they attempted to invade Silkiah...

I wouldn't rule out the possibility in this alternate history that the Church would still have pulled off a forced end to the war, just with Silkiah in Siddarmark's hands and the Desnairian border successfully held there. Maybe the treaty would have specified Siddarmark funding a lot of Desnairian border fortresses, and Desnair may have picked up a keen interest in field artillery to counter pikes.

That much more powerful Siddarmark though would have drawn Church fears even more strongly - perhaps enough that they would have worked not for the destruction of Charis but just a sort of holding action, using Corisande and Emerald as proxies. Meanwhile, the Sword of Schueller or something like it may have kicked off the new era of bloodshed instead of Armageddon Reef. And in this scenario, if he saw that coming, Merlin may well have opted to show up in Siddarmark instead and work to make it his (primary) tool. Or he could have been a very busy traveller, with various identities assisting Charis against assassinations, Queen Sharleyan against conspiracies to prevent her assisting Charis, and Lord Protector Stohnair against Church-instigated rebellions. Picture a whole hemisphere of low-level trouble instead of sequential hot spots.